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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2017 :  2:52:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The subject is about a WiFi solution for electric heat, not about any one solution. There's been several suggested possibilities

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Smarto
Starting Member

9 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2017 :  3:29:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

The subject is about a WiFi solution for electric heat, not about any one solution. There's been several suggested possibilities



I like to read other solutions of course, especially if they are better and cheaper. But I am trying to learn which solution is the best so that I can install in my home this summer. So is the Nest + Aube solution still good or are there other better alternatives?
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gwydionjhr
New Member

Canada
23 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2017 :  6:20:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It looks to me like the Nest + Aube solution requires running wires between the thermostat and the relay. So while it looks like it may save a few bucks up front, the installation costs will most likely outweigh those saving.

The Sinope and Stelpros are basically plug and play. I'm not going to speak to the Caleos because I'm personally leery of what they're offering.
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brucecs63
Starting Member

13 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2017 :  6:48:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am most likely going the Sinope route myself. I have a concern that I don't know what will happen till I try to install it. I am running the old 8011b wifi standard, I have a weather station that works wirelessly. Several wireless cameras connected to my wifi router. And Insteon too for switches and modules.

Bruce
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Smarto
Starting Member

9 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2017 :  8:12:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gwydionjhr

It looks to me like the Nest + Aube solution requires running wires between the thermostat and the relay. So while it looks like it may save a few bucks up front, the installation costs will most likely outweigh those saving.

The Sinope and Stelpros are basically plug and play. I'm not going to speak to the Caleos because I'm personally leery of what they're offering.



From a standpoint of a remotely controlled thermostat then I agree that there are cheaper and better solutions than Nest + Aube. But from the standpoint of Smarthome with Homekit, Alexa and Google Home in the future then I want the Nest or Ecobee with Nest being the better choice. I really kick myself for not having Homekit or Alexa integration but at the same time it may be just a gimmick
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gwydionjhr
New Member

Canada
23 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2017 :  12:12:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Which is why IMHO the Stelpros are the best choice, they operate on a standard that any smarthome hub can integrate, if the maker chooses to do so. And of the two, the ZigBee standard, because it's basically Wi-Fi, might end up being the winner in the long run.

You really need to take a visit to the Smarthomedb dot com and have a look at which devices combine/integrate best with which hubs.

Buy a thermostat that relies on a proprietary cloud to operate... company goes bust or decides to stop supporting your thermostats; you have some very nice wall ornaments

Buy a hub that relies on a proprietary protocol, and devices that connect with that same proprietary protocol... company goes bust, or gets bought (look up Revolv) then you're SOL.

Build a smarthome setup around a "free" service with no visible means of support (I'm lookin' at you IFTTT) what happens when that collapses?

I'm going to keep my devices as platform agnostic as I can, and if the hub I'm using goes belly up, I'll switch to another, but at I'll still have the opportunity to keep on using my devices.

$4 for a lightswitch that I know will continue to work for 25-50 years, and we don't think twice about it.

$40-80 for a lightswitch that might do nothing more than turn the light on/off with the push of a button in 5 years because it's "cloud" is gone. No thanks.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2017 :  11:36:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There are no thermostats nor switches than I'm aware of that require the cloud to be functional. Some do require the cloud for remote or voice control, but that's the very reason for installing such devices.

Not everyone want HA. If you don't, then such products are not for you. Personally, nearly every device in my home is automated and we really enjoy that. Lights turn on when we enter a darkened room, especially handy if your hands are full, window covering operate based on the time of day/night or position of the sun, doors lock automatically in the event we forget, much, much more.

As far as companies going belly up, consider the automobile industry

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum
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gwydionjhr
New Member

Canada
23 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2017 :  11:39:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is a difference between a proprietary cloud, and a cloud.
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Smarto
Starting Member

9 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2017 :  12:01:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

There are no thermostats nor switches than I'm aware of that require the cloud to be functional. Some do require the cloud for remote or voice control, but that's the very reason for installing such devices.

Not everyone want HA. If you don't, then such products are not for you. Personally, nearly every device in my home is automated and we really enjoy that. Lights turn on when we enter a darkened room, especially handy if your hands are full, window covering operate based on the time of day/night or position of the sun, doors lock automatically in the event we forget, much, much more.

As far as companies going belly up, consider the automobile industry



Well you do need the Amazon or Apple cloud in order for your Alexa or Homekit devices to work. Nevertheless, I don't know of any device that you cannot operate manually to override the automation.

Having said this, in order for the cloud to disappear then you have to bet that Amazon and Apple will go bankrupted some day without anybody buying them and take over the cloud. Possible but probably not in my lifetime

Yep once you have experienced home automation then you will never go back, like voice control, automatic turning off or on when you leave your home or come back, automatic running based on a scene...

It's like if people still resist to use the remote control for the TV in 2017.
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brucecs63
Starting Member

13 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2017 :  4:33:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hope some people can relate to this about HA and the cloud using Alexa. Last night I was absolutely killing my 50 gig up and down that Alexa couldn't connect. I gave up trying to tell Alexa to turn off my Wemo controlled outlet room light that I had to get out of bed to actually turn off the switch on the lamp. Dark Ages indeed ;)

Bruce
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jeff_arko
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2017 :  08:15:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
UPDATE : 9/15/17 : Installed & Working Great.
- - - - - - - -

WOO-HOO! Sinope has released their new DOUBLE-POLE, Wi-Fi, 240V, programmable line voltage thermostat.
It's a beauty -- I've already ordered 3. They arrived at my house yesterday (8/28/17) along with the web interface.
Finally ... I can upgrade all my thermostats! I'll post again next week after they are in.

(NOTE: No, I don't work at Sinope. Just happy someone released a product that suits our needs!!)

THERMOSTATS
http://www.sinopetech.com/en/boutique/products/neviweb-en/double-pole-thermostat-for-electric-heating-web-programmable-3600-w/

WEB INTERFACE
http://www.sinopetech.com/en/boutique/products/neviweb-en/web-gateway/


Edited by - jeff_arko on 09/15/2017 4:02:02 PM
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Blucid
Starting Member

Canada
2 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2017 :  2:15:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blucid's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have been following, this topic for almost a year now. I moved into a new home 1 year ago. Its a brand new town house, 3 floors and it has 11. Thats right 11 baseboard heaters. Is it even worth it for me to try to smart-home / thermostat this place.

It might save me some money down the road after it pays off but is it worth the hassle? What do you guys think?

Edited by - Blucid on 10/04/2017 2:16:46 PM
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Smarto
Starting Member

9 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2017 :  3:05:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blucid

I have been following, this topic for almost a year now. I moved into a new home 1 year ago. Its a brand new town house, 3 floors and it has 11. Thats right 11 baseboard heaters. Is it even worth it for me to try to smart-home / thermostat this place.

It might save me some money down the road after it pays off but is it worth the hassle? What do you guys think?




Brucid, a regular thermostat will do the job of controlling the heater to maintain a temperature. A semi smart thermostat such as the Sinope will allow you to set the temperature and control the heater remotely. A smarter thermostat such as the Nest or Ecobee will learn when you are at home or away, or have multiple sensors to know the temperature in various places in your home to control the heater accordingly.
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scavenger
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2017 :  3:18:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blucid

I have been following, this topic for almost a year now. I moved into a new home 1 year ago. Its a brand new town house, 3 floors and it has 11. Thats right 11 baseboard heaters. Is it even worth it for me to try to smart-home / thermostat this place.

It might save me some money down the road after it pays off but is it worth the hassle? What do you guys think?



Yes, absolutely. My house has 10 Sinopés installed and I love it. I think of my home as covered in a mesh network of temperature probes; I can see what areas suck more $$$ out of my wallet and tune the node output accordingly. The more the better, IMO.

They aren’t hard to install.
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Smarto
Starting Member

9 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2017 :  3:37:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by scavenger

quote:
Originally posted by Blucid

I have been following, this topic for almost a year now. I moved into a new home 1 year ago. Its a brand new town house, 3 floors and it has 11. Thats right 11 baseboard heaters. Is it even worth it for me to try to smart-home / thermostat this place.

It might save me some money down the road after it pays off but is it worth the hassle? What do you guys think?



Yes, absolutely. My house has 10 Sinopés installed and I love it. I think of my home as covered in a mesh network of temperature probes; I can see what areas suck more $$$ out of my wallet and tune the node output accordingly. The more the better, IMO.

They aren’t hard to install.



Scavenger, what benefits do you get from the Sinope compared to a regular thermostat, other than you can control it remotely?
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scavenger
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2017 :  4:13:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Smarto

quote:
Originally posted by scavenger

quote:
Originally posted by Blucid

I have been following, this topic for almost a year now. I moved into a new home 1 year ago. Its a brand new town house, 3 floors and it has 11. Thats right 11 baseboard heaters. Is it even worth it for me to try to smart-home / thermostat this place.

It might save me some money down the road after it pays off but is it worth the hassle? What do you guys think?



Yes, absolutely. My house has 10 Sinopés installed and I love it. I think of my home as covered in a mesh network of temperature probes; I can see what areas suck more $$$ out of my wallet and tune the node output accordingly. The more the better, IMO.

They aren’t hard to install.



Scavenger, what benefits do you get from the Sinope compared to a regular thermostat, other than you can control it remotely?



Controlling them remotely was actually the least interesting feature when I decided to get the Sinope. My house is pretty open, with lofts and wide open spaces. The thermostats we had before were really bad rotary analog things, you know the kind, with "comfort zones" of maybe 20 degrees of error in them, and no actual temps listed on the gauge.

Having the digital precision was good, but the killer feature is in their web interface. They have a demo you can check out.

The temperature history and metrics is the biggest feature for me. Seeing the house as a mesh network of temperature probes is great, because you can tweak the output manually to save the most money. That allowed me to see that setting the temperature of the big 2.5KW wall cans in the main room equally to the other clusters of lower-wattage cans in the same room was costing me a huge amount of money each month.

Dialing the big can down a couple degrees and the smaller cans up by a degree balanced the output and lowered the cost significantly. Between the digital accuracy and the zone tuning, I saved maybe 50% that first month on heating, and those savings continued, though that's more a comment on how inefficient our old thermostats were.

Edited by - scavenger on 10/04/2017 8:49:39 PM
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gwydionjhr
New Member

Canada
23 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2017 :  8:06:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would echo scavenger's comments. Being able to treat each room as a zone, and having the temps adjusted by where we are in the house at what time of day is gravy. Being able to see, get feedback on the changes you make is a huge plus.
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Blucid
Starting Member

Canada
2 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2017 :  08:05:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blucid's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The main reason is, I would like remote control, and away control. Once the kids come I dont want to run around the house adjusting the thermos all the time. Some rooms will never be heated, but I would like to be able to setup schedules, because that would save money in the long run.

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Smarto
Starting Member

9 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2017 :  6:32:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blucid

The main reason is, I would like remote control, and away control. Once the kids come I dont want to run around the house adjusting the thermos all the time. Some rooms will never be heated, but I would like to be able to setup schedules, because that would save money in the long run.



Blucid, most programmable thermostat has schedule. What I did last winter with my space heaters is that I connect them through an iDevices smart plug. Then I cycled ON-OFF every hour or half an hour, effectively cutting down my heating cost in half while the temperature in the house is pretty much the same. I can also control my heaters remotely as well as reading the temperature of the house through another smart thermometer or through my main Nest. By the way, I got my Nest working through an Aube relay for my electric baseboard heater, but it is a pain.
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