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aperl
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2013 :  07:41:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
to clarify when using the aube relay. I assume that if I want to use the aube relay and a WiFi thermostat... i would have to run wires between the relay, located on/in the baseboard heater and the location of the WiFi thermostat. correct?
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2013 :  12:03:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes.

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Birddog
Starting Member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2013 :  07:15:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm new here but have been checking this thread for awhile. I'm in the process of hooking up electric baseboards like others, and my Aube relay should arrive today or tomorrow. Yesterday I purchased the Honeywell RTH6500WF and I have been reading the instructions. I'm a little spooked because it says this unit cannot be used to operate baseboard heat. I assumed that with the relay it would, am I wrong? To be sure this stat does way too much. Like others I want only to turn on heat in a vacation home prior to my arrival via a WiFi connection. So far I can't even determine if this unit has a battery backup, power outages are frequent here. Would I be better off purchasing a different stat? I'd love to hear from someone who has already done this. TIA
Birddog
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BLH
Advanced Member

5600 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2013 :  09:55:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I looked at the Aube Relay manual and the Honeywell manual.
The relay should work with that model thermostat.
Figure 2 of the Aube manual Three wire thermostat.
The Relay C to C on the thermostat
The Relay R to the R/RC on the thermostat
The Relay W to the W on the thermostat.
I would then go into the Setup Menu and in #1 System Type. 2 Heat Only looks like the correct choice.
You may want to look at #5 Heating Cycles. Not sure if 9 Electric Heat would be correct.
I did not see any mention of a backup battery in the thermostat.

Edited by - BLH on 09/12/2013 10:07:33 AM
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Birddog
Starting Member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2013 :  10:16:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thankyou BLH. I haven't received the relay from UPS yet, so I'll take your word for it. The other suggestions you made are what I was thinking too. I did call Honeywell's help line and they told me that there was an internal battery backup so that in the event of a power outage you would not lose your settings.
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BLH
Advanced Member

5600 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2013 :  05:59:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The manual may have not mentioned the internal battery as it is built in and the user didn't have to add one.
Let us know how it works out.
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Birddog
Starting Member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2013 :  09:58:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eureka. The basics are up and running. I inadvertently neglected to mention just what equipment I'm running so here it is. Currently the system is only running a QMark 1000 watt electric/hydronic baseboard heater. I plan to add an additional 500 watts if this works as intended. My 240 V line runs to a remote junction box where I installed the Aube RC840T relay. This is a relay transformer combination. It is SPST I would rather have had a DPDT but I guess they don't make one. The relay was too large to install in the access panel of the baseboard, but mounting it remotely is probably better if you want to add on to the system. Just locate the relay and junction box in an are that would serve as a hub for any additions. The stat I bought is a Honeywell RTH6500WF. It was $119 at Lowes. The next model up has touch screen controls but I wouldn't spring the $30 for that feature. Both have the potential to do far more than what I would need. I really only wanted the WiFi capability and smart phone apps.

I would bet that someone will make a simpler stat designed for use with baseboards that is WiFi enabled in the not too distant future. They already make programmable units.

The next step is to get WiFi enabled so that I can turn on the heat before I arrive at my vacation place. I'll report back.

WiFi is now enabled and works like a charm. Did some testing and the unit seems to work as advertised. The only thing that is a little clunky is that the stat shows that the "Fan" is set to auto. The stat thinks that when the heat is switched "on" that a fan is also activated.

Edited by - Birddog on 09/14/2013 06:14:58 AM
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BLH
Advanced Member

5600 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2013 :  04:00:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In the System Type. Did you pic #2 Heat or #3 Heat with Fan?
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Birddog
Starting Member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2013 :  06:08:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good call BLH. When I set it up I didn't think it gave me that option (it looked like it skipped "2". I went back into set up with a freshly awakened brain and did it again. The second time it also looked like it skipped "2" but then I realized I wasn't following instructions exactly as stated. I now have it right and the screen reads "HEAT" no mention of "FAN AUTO". It works either way. I actually couldn't have expected more from this stat and the ease of use via WiFi and point of use control. I had my wife who is 500 miles away change my settings while I watched. She was amazed at how easy it was. I hope the phone app is as easy as this.

After observing the stat in action it seems to keep a very good handle on temp swings, never letting the unit vary more than 1* from setting. The outside temps are in the 50's now but when winter gets here I expect it will be a challenge as temps will frequently fall to around 0* and lower and I'm way undersized wattage wise. This was only installed to take the chill off prior to arrival and to use as a possible backup to the Propane heaters that do the bulk of the work in Winter. After analyzing my electric bill for a season I may add more wattage. I'm pretty sure I'll add at least 500 watts. In the future, if some Mfg introduces a less expensive baseboard specific stat I might just include the 2 bedrooms. That would be very nice.
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BLH
Advanced Member

5600 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2013 :  06:34:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Since you are not using the fan output. It would not make any difference other than the unused fan output was also going On and Off.

You may have to try different Function 5 Heating Cycle Rate. To get the best heat control.
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tpfeist
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2013 :  05:19:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have my Aube relay and a RadioThermostat CT30 wifi thermostat. Ready to do the hookup as described, but I am concerned that the 24V transformer does not have enough current output (rated 40mA?) to drive the CT30, which nominally calls for 250-300mA, based on the specs I read. Does anyone have any experience with this combination? Since the relay works with the Honeywell model (as posted below), does anyone know the nominal current requirements for that thermostat? Thanks.
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BLH
Advanced Member

5600 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2013 :  12:59:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe you are correct. From the installation sheet. The Aube Relay has a 1.2VA transformer rating and its relay coil uses 40mA. That leaves about a 10mA safety margin.
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rdsims
Starting Member

Canada
8 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2013 :  1:08:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have found this thread extremely helpful to figure out the solution. i do however have a question on which Aube relay as there is the 840 (with 2 wires for the line power red & black) or the 840T (with 3 wires red, black and blue)? The current wiring configuration is with 12/2 connected to a manual honeywell single pole thermostat, which seems the standard wiring in BC. Any guidance on which relay is appropriate is appreciated.

R
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BLH
Advanced Member

5600 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2013 :  1:54:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The old thermostat is switching the 220 volts directly and you will have to rewire the power so the Aube controls the 220 volts and then a separate low voltage wire to the replacement thermostat.
Then you can use the 840T as it has an internal transformer. Even if you only use the R and W connections as the C is optional to power the thermostat if it can use 24 volt power.

Be very careful. Those 12/2 Red and Black wires are carrying 220 volt power and can hurt you.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2013 :  2:29:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tpfeist

I have my Aube relay and a RadioThermostat CT30 wifi thermostat. Ready to do the hookup as described, but I am concerned that the 24V transformer does not have enough current output (rated 40mA?) to drive the CT30, which nominally calls for 250-300mA, based on the specs I read. Does anyone have any experience with this combination? Since the relay works with the Honeywell model (as posted below), does anyone know the nominal current requirements for that thermostat? Thanks.


Use the Aube RC840 and an external 24VAC transformer/power supply rated for at least 300 mA.

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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2013 :  2:41:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rdsims

I have found this thread extremely helpful to figure out the solution. i do however have a question on which Aube relay as there is the 840 (with 2 wires for the line power red & black) or the 840T (with 3 wires red, black and blue)? The current wiring configuration is with 12/2 connected to a manual honeywell single pole thermostat, which seems the standard wiring in BC. Any guidance on which relay is appropriate is appreciated.


The 840 is useful for a standard thermostat that has its own power supply. The 840T has an additional (unswitched) wire to power the internal transformer.

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rdsims
Starting Member

Canada
8 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2013 :  2:42:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BLH

The old thermostat is switching the 220 volts directly and you will have to rewire the power so the Aube controls the 220 volts and then a separate low voltage wire to the replacement thermostat.
Then you can use the 840T as it has an internal transformer. Even if you only use the R and W connections as the C is optional to power the thermostat if it can use 24 volt power.

Be very careful. Those 12/2 Red and Black wires are carrying 220 volt power and can hurt you.



Thanks BLH. So if i understand, i should use the 840T.

For the rewiring, power will be off for sure. For the Aube to switch the power, the connection would be aube black from source to black, then aube red to black load with both white (source and load) to blue on aube.

Then thermostat connected with low voltage wire.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2013 :  3:46:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
White? Is the white wire marked with colored tape? Is the circuit controlled by a pair of yoked circuit breakers?

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Edited by - stusviews on 09/28/2013 5:00:01 PM
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rdsims
Starting Member

Canada
8 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2013 :  4:11:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

White? Is the white wire marked with colored tape? Is the circuit controlled by a pair of yolked circuit breakers?



Neither white is marked. They are connected with a marrette. One of the blacks has tape. it is controlled by a pair of yolked breakers.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2013 :  5:04:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A single black wire cannot be controlled by a pair of yoked breakers. There must be two powered wires. Unmarked white wires are usually, but not always, indicative of a neutral.

Does the electric baseboard heater have an electric rating label? What is the model name and number of the heater?

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rdsims
Starting Member

Canada
8 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2013 :  10:45:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In the panel, baseboard heat is controlled by a double breaker which i assume is what you mean by yolked. This breaker controls 3 baseboard heaters 2 are controlled by wall mounted thermostats and the third small hearer has an intergrated control. I could not see a brand on the heater but the thermostats are branded Stelpro and manufactured by honeywell.

R
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2013 :  1:25:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Stelpro manufactures both 120V and 240V baseboard heaters.That the heaters are controlled by a double breaker usually indicates 240V. That you have an unmarked white wire usually indicates 120V. It does matter.

Do you have the built-in thermostat or a wall thermostat? Do you have a voltmeter?

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rdsims
Starting Member

Canada
8 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2013 :  2:33:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have the wall thermostat but no voltmeter.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2013 :  3:34:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
With the power off, remove the thermostat. Search for a model number and describe the wiring.

BTW, a voltmeter will make this project and others easier. Even the least expensive one is adequate, but it should be a meter, not a voltage indicator (e.g., neon light).

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rdsims
Starting Member

Canada
8 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2013 :  4:19:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Stu. I will have to pick this thread up in a couple of weeks as I have left the property. However I can describe the wiring:
- wire entering top of box is NMD 12/2 or possibly 14/2: one conductor has white sheath, second has black sheath, and bare copper ground
- wire exiting bottom of box is the same

Black wire from top of box connected to L1 has electrical tape marking it
Black wire from bottom of box is connected to T1
White wires are connected by a marrette

Copper grounds twisted together and connected to the box.

R
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Birddog
Starting Member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2013 :  6:34:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From what you've described it sounds like you have a single pole single throw thermostat with 240v circuit. To be sure get a meter and check it.
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rrolleston
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2013 :  08:34:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit rrolleston's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is an old post but you could put all the baseboard heat breakers in another panel use a large contactor to control the feed to that panel and use the aubee relay and nest to control contactor. This would allow you to control the heat for much less than buying 12 thermostats and relays.
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Fidzio
Starting Member

Canada
1 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2013 :  7:43:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have exactly the same issue with a cottage and baseboard heaters.
I have a solution, which operated via a regular phone line, until I cancelled Bell and installed a Rogers Rocket Hub (internet via cell towers).
I didn't try to control the temperature, but instead left the thermostats as they were, and installed some 240V X10 switches in the cables coming from the main circuit breaker panel. That way I could switch the heaters on when I left for the cottage, and several hours later, the cottage would be warmed up ready for me to come in and light up the woodstove.
This doesn't fix the remote temperature setting, which some members wanted, but does provide a relatively cheap and cheerful way to warm up the cottage for your arrival. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide more details.

John
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rdsims
Starting Member

Canada
8 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2013 :  11:41:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well i am back at it. the supply is 120V. Will the RC840T still work as a relay? Documentation all says 240V but am hoping that is a max rating so will work on 120v line.

Thanks
R
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2013 :  12:59:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The Aube 840T is cannot be used with 120V, but the Aube 840 can. However, you'll need to add a 24VAC power supply. (The 840T includes a 24VAC power source, the 840 does not.)

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
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