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melvinp
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  06:33:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I all know is that it is the "North American Version" and it works like a champ. I've told my HVAC guy about this he did not seem to fret.. But technically, I don't know.
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jfcouture
New Member

Canada
29 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  2:24:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
one month after sinope....

its been 4 weeks now after tmy electrician connected 8 sinope thermostats to my cottage. works like a charm.

still working at setting up the best temperature settings for each zome to balance the heat throughout, control throught the neviweb interface is straight forward... really nice to monitor the daily and houly loads. takes a bit of iteration to get it right as my cottage is open concept with a mezzanine. almost there
this is a great product. good pricing relative to other programmable thermostats without wifi.

will buy 3 more units for a complete setup,.
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Imposter
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  3:05:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can any Sinope owner report whether the heat can be shut off completely via remote?
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jfcouture
New Member

Canada
29 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  3:29:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you can ask the sinope tech people. they have responsed to several of my questions very quickly.
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Johndpumo
Junior Member

31 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  5:43:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If it is not UL rated it may not be in code in the US.
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melvinp
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  06:26:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Johndpumo

If it is not UL rated it may not be in code in the US.



As I am not in front of the unit or the documentation to validate that, you can simply ask them at: http://www.sinopetech.com/en/

I am really not that concerned about this aspect personally, but I am sure there are a million reasons why I should be.
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scavenger
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2015 :  07:47:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just got my starter kit and an additional thermostat (3 total) and set it all up within about 20 minutes, including pulling the yellowed old therms out.

These things are incredible. The displays are very nice, very modern and show the outside temperature and time based on your ZIP code. What I like almost more than the fact that these control my wall cans, is that they are essentially a set of mesh network "probes" that will report all the different temperature zones in my house (I have 10 wall cans total). Over time it will be great to see where I need to focus efforts to weatherproof.

We also have gas central heat with an old programmable Honeywell therm, so it will be excellent to finally have the two systems working in harmony. Two different systems, but I can have them targeting the exact same schedules and temperatures. Both gas and electric bills should go down.

Placed my order for seven more today to complete the mesh.

I chatted with a very friendly support person today and to confirm the question above, the Sinope thermostats are ETL certified for use in Canada and the United States (logo is on the packaging & device).

For this shipment to the US, however, there was an extra duty charge on UPS receipt, so you may need to have your checkbook ready when the shipment arrives.
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scavenger
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2015 :  08:21:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Sinope mesh itself is on the 915MHz band. In the event of power loss more than ~8 hours the black box will pull all the necessary config from neviweb.com and update the thermostats. For smaller outages the thermostats have a built-in battery, so there's quite a bit of protection there. When the therms come back from an outage, they resume the last mode, so if you are away from your home or cabin, and there is a power loss, then the therms will resume their "Away" mode (Away mode disables all scheduling and sets the therms to your lowest temp. point).

So to answer the question, "can these be shut off," I think the answer is no, but what you do is set your lowest temp. point as your "Away" setting, which looks to be (at least in my case) 41 degrees Fahrenheit. And remotely you have full access to your thermostats via the neviweb.com interface.

The interface demo is here: http://demo.neviweb.com/ and is identical to the production version. The mobile support is very clean and optimized for phones and tablets. I couldn't be more satisfied.
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BLH
Advanced Member

5600 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2015 :  09:38:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
915MHz?
That is also the exact same frequency Insteon RF commands use.
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scavenger
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2015 :  10:09:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's just the standard RF band for the Americas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band

EDIT: sorry for the confusion below. I meant (in the context of that wiki article) "the one exclusive (ISM) RF band for the Americas" above.

Edited by - scavenger on 01/15/2015 2:47:06 PM
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2015 :  11:36:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
That's within one of the standard RF bands for the Americas

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scavenger
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2015 :  12:20:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

That's within one of the standard RF bands for the Americas



Well, yes. The center frequency, which is often used as shorthand for the band. I didn't ask if it hunts in the event of congestion.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2015 :  12:48:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
WiFi is about 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz, cordless phones use 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz as well as the 900Mhz band, and there are even more RF bands available for use in the Americas.

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scavenger
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2015 :  1:11:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, yes, agreed, though I guess I might have been a bit soft on the description above. I was specifically referring to the "Region 2 (Americas) exclusive" RF band from 902 to 928 MHz with a center frequency of 915 MHz.

I have no idea if that's a fixed frequency or if it hunts within the band.

In your own example, you call out "2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz" when those are just the center frequencies of wider spectrum bands.

Point being, per the implication above, does this RF channel interfere with Insteon devices? I wouldn't think so. These are mostly in receiver mode anyway with apparently a very light emission profile.

Edited by - scavenger on 01/15/2015 1:14:03 PM
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2015 :  1:57:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Maybe a miscommunication. I wasn't concerned about the exact frequency of any particular device, just that there is more that one standard.

Had you indicated "a" standard instead of "the" standard, I wouldn't have been concerned at all. Sometimes I read things too literally

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
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melvinp
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2015 :  06:34:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by scavenger

For this shipment to the US, however, there was an extra duty charge on UPS receipt, so you may need to have your checkbook ready when the shipment arrives.



Lucky you, I did not get this charge..
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SmartHome53
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2015 :  3:12:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Forum members,

I just installed the Sinope WiFi enabled thermostat starter kit and thought I would share some of the setup settings not shown in the user manuals (available at the Sinope web site).

I live in the USA and it all worked great. It's a Canadian company and the total cost shipped to the Seattle area was $192.65.

This is what I ordered:
http://www.sinopetech.com/en/
Starter kit - Electric heating thermostats - Wireless communication - 3000W (#GT125-K2)
2 thermostats, 1 web gateway

The installation was fairly easy if you only have two wires behind your existing thermostat. If not, have an electrician do the thermostat installation. The web gateway was a breeze if you have any skill at all connecting network devices. If not, ask anyone under the age of 30.

When setting up your account at http://neviweb.com after installing the thermostats & web gateway you have to answer some basic default questions.

Language: French/English
Temp type: Celsius/Fahrenheit
Hour type: 24 hour, AM/PM

network settings

network name:
This can be set to anything. I called mine "Thermostat Network". As far as I can tell, it doesn't have anything to do with your existing wireless network and does NOT generate a constant wireless network name (SID) viewable from computers. I think its more as a zone name where a business could have different groups/zones of thermostats, maybe for each floor of a large building. For a single family home you would probably only have one name.

Postal code:
City:
Country:

Cost: [enter the cost per KWH from your local electric utility. This allows the program to determine what your heating costs are]

Pick a graphic image for your network (I picked a graphic of a house) and click the SAVE button.

-------------------------

To set individual Individual thermostat parameters click the graphic you choose for your network on the initial web page.

Initially, all thermostat names will show as "Thermostat" on the web site. Press both buttons on physical thermostat which will highlight the corresponding thermostat on your web account. Then you give that thermostat a name and make other settings.

To have the thermostats uses the schedule you set you have to click on "Manual" in the Mode area and set to "Auto".

Within the individual thermostat settings you have the following:
Thermostat name: [Living room, Family room, etc]

Secondary display: [Information to be displayed in the secondary zone of the thermostat]. Options are Setpoint/Outside Temp. The "setpoint" is the target temperature for that particular thermostat location.

Temperature format: Celsius/Fahrenheit

Time format: 24 hrs/12 hrs

Backlight: Automatic/Always ON

Early start: On/Off
The Early start functionality can be used only in AUTO mode. When enabled, the thermostat determines when to start heating in order to obtain the desired temperature by the time set in your schedule.

Control type: Short Cycle/Long Cycle
Long cycle for fan forced heat. Sort cycle for electric baseboard

Away temperature: [default fahrenheit 59]
Min temperature: [default fahrenheit 41]
Max temperature: [default fahrenheit 86]

Keypad lock: Active/Inactive
If set to Inactive I assume this means that you can't change the temperature at the thermostat, only through the web login.

Individual thermostat alarm
Generate an alarm when...
1) The temperature is lower than/higher than:
2) Email address:
3) message (optional):
---------------------------

You click a separate icon for an individual thermostat to enter the time schedule for turning on your thermostats and to what temperature. Once you set these for a certain day there is a button you can click to copy the settings to other days of the week.

As mention previously, you can generate usage history and cost (if KWH amount was entered in the setup) in total or for each thermostat.

You can temporarily override the automatic settings just using the up/down buttons on the physical thermostat (unless disabled in the settings).

I have been looking for this solution for years. Since the setting connections are done via a web site no app or program is needed. Just make sure you have a good password.
===========================================

2015/01/30 Friday Update

I liked my starter kit thermostats so well I ordered 5 more. The additional thermostats arrived today and I was shocked that the UPS delivery guy wanted a $38.72 USD "Brokerage Fee". I refused the order because I had never heard of such a thing and wasn't charged it on my first order. He will attempt to deliver again on Monday.

As a previous poster mentioned in passing there can be International "Brokerage Fees" added by UPS depending on the value of your order.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs/fees.html

I think because my first order was less than $200 USD I wasn't charged a fee. My second order is over $200 USD. But that doesn't explain why they are attempting to charge me $38.72 instead of $25.25 listed on their own web site. I will call the 502-485-2222 UPS International Shipping phone number (the delivery guy gave me) on Monday.

I don't recall the Sinope Technologies web site saying anything about this Canada to USA additional "brokerage fee". They should add that to the web site so we are not caught unprepared when the delivery person asked for more money before giving you your package.

===========================================

2015/02/02 Monday Update
I just finished speaking with UPS at their 502-485-2222 number. If your order from Canada to the US is over $200 US dollars then you will be charged a fee on delivery. You can also call that same UPS number and they will put the charge on your credit card.

This is the breakdown of the additional charges from UPS for my order of 5 wifi enabled thermostats from Canada to the USA:
Duty $4.47
Other Government Charges $2.00
Brokerage $32.25
Total $38.72

I did get a reply back from Sinope and this was their reply:
"Please note that when an order is placed on our Website, there is a note below shipping and handling (before the order is finalized) that mentions that duties and taxes are not included for delivery outside Canada. I assume this is what UPS wants you to pay."

I just think they could make that a bit more clear when ordering. Great product though.

Tim

Edited by - SmartHome53 on 02/02/2015 08:52:42 AM
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Laurencep
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2015 :  08:01:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
My name is Laurence, Communication Marketing Advisor for Sinope Technologies. We're glad you like our product! Feel free to contact us anytime by phone (1-450-741-7700) or by email ([email protected]).

Thanks!
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TeaPea79
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2015 :  03:10:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi. Can anyone help me out? I have 2 baseboard heaters and NEST WiFi thermostat. How can I make the nest compatible with the Nest? What other parts do I need ? Thanks in advance
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gwydionjhr
New Member

Canada
23 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2015 :  07:01:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not possible at this point. Sinope has said they're going to opening the platform up but when, and to what degree we don't know.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2015 :  11:43:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TeaPea79

Hi. Can anyone help me out? I have 2 baseboard heaters and NEST WiFi thermostat. How can I make the nest compatible with the Nest? What other parts do I need ? Thanks in advance


Entirely possible. See my reply to your other post.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
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Edited by - stusviews on 02/02/2015 11:43:44 AM
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tsoulen
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2015 :  2:05:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Please forgive my ignorance. We have just purchased a second house in the mountains that has a hot water boiler with baseboards. The house has 4 thermostats controlling different zones. I want to be able to control them individually and remotely. Would I need thermostats like the Sinope ones or traditional WIFI enabled thermostats?
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2015 :  2:45:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Baseboard heaters are line voltage and standard thermostats are low voltage.

You need either a line voltage thermostat or any standard thermostat with an Aube relay.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum
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gwydionjhr
New Member

Canada
23 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2015 :  3:18:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tsoulen

Please forgive my ignorance. We have just purchased a second house in the mountains that has a hot water boiler with baseboards. The house has 4 thermostats controlling different zones. I want to be able to control them individually and remotely. Would I need thermostats like the Sinope ones or traditional WIFI enabled thermostats?



If your baseboards are heated with the hot water from the boiler, the Sinope's won't work. Depending on a few things any standard 24v thermostat should work. I don't know if they're available yet, but you could look at Snugr, a Belgian Kickstarter that is looking to provide zone control for Hydronic(sp?) baseboards.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2015 :  3:43:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tsoulen

Please forgive my ignorance. We have just purchased a second house in the mountains that has a hot water boiler with baseboards. The house has 4 thermostats controlling different zones. I want to be able to control them individually and remotely. Would I need thermostats like the Sinope ones or traditional WIFI enabled thermostats?


Which specific thermostats are you currently using?

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum
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darinw
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2015 :  3:12:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have yet to see a diagram of the actual wiring. The Aube 840T diagram shows only wiring to a 2-wire or 3-wire thermostat. What I'd love to see, and have yet to, is a diagram showing Wiring from a Wifi Thermostat (which is more than 2 or 3 wires) to the Aube 840T relay then from the relay to the Baseboard or Cadet heater. How many wires are needed from your typical wifi thermostat to the Aube relay? Thanks, Darin
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2015 :  4:10:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The Aube relay controls only single-stage heating. The single-stage heating portion on any thermostat requires only 2 or three wires. There is nothing else to connect to.

A thermostat the requires more that 2 or 3 wires is for both heating and cooling.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum
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Laurencep
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2015 :  10:50:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi guys,
My name is Laurence, Communication Marketing Advisor for Sinope Technologies. Thanks for your good words. Our Wireless communication thermostat will absolutely work for the United States! Just so you know, our products have the ETL Listed Mark for the U.S. and Canada. The Wireless communication have a maximum load of 3000W @ 240V or 1500W @ 120V.
Have a good day
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gwydionjhr
New Member

Canada
23 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2015 :  11:15:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any word on how Sinope is coming along with extending the functionality/communication with the thermostats into other ecosystems?
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phantomiz
Average Member

Canada
70 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2015 :  4:03:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SmartHome53

Forum members,

2015/01/30 Friday Update

I liked my starter kit thermostats so well I ordered 5 more. The additional thermostats arrived today and I was shocked that the UPS delivery guy wanted a $38.72 USD "Brokerage Fee". I refused the order because I had never heard of such a thing and wasn't charged it on my first order. He will attempt to deliver again on Monday.

As a previous poster mentioned in passing there can be International "Brokerage Fees" added by UPS depending on the value of your order.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs/fees.html

I think because my first order was less than $200 USD I wasn't charged a fee. My second order is over $200 USD. But that doesn't explain why they are attempting to charge me $38.72 instead of $25.25 listed on their own web site. I will call the 502-485-2222 UPS International Shipping phone number (the delivery guy gave me) on Monday.

I don't recall the Sinope Technologies web site saying anything about this Canada to USA additional "brokerage fee". They should add that to the web site so we are not caught unprepared when the delivery person asked for more money before giving you your package.

===========================================

2015/02/02 Monday Update
I just finished speaking with UPS at their 502-485-2222 number. If your order from Canada to the US is over $200 US dollars then you will be charged a fee on delivery. You can also call that same UPS number and they will put the charge on your credit card.

This is the breakdown of the additional charges from UPS for my order of 5 wifi enabled thermostats from Canada to the USA:
Duty $4.47
Other Government Charges $2.00
Brokerage $32.25
Total $38.72

I did get a reply back from Sinope and this was their reply:
"Please note that when an order is placed on our Website, there is a note below shipping and handling (before the order is finalized) that mentions that duties and taxes are not included for delivery outside Canada. I assume this is what UPS wants you to pay."

I just think they could make that a bit more clear when ordering. Great product though.




One thing I learned when shipping cross border. Ship USPS/Canada Post. For me in Canada, if I go UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc, you get charged brokerage fees, duty, handling charges and provincial taxes (HST on everything). If I have items ship USPS to Canada, item goes through customs, it gets transferred to Canada Post and about 85% of the time I don't get charged any extras. When I do get charged anything, it will be HST, customs handling charge and our harmonized sales tax (13%). I'd say those are pretty good odds...

So to keep it simple, ship USPS or Canada Post dependent on which direction the parcels are going...


PhanTomiZ
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