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kilbournj
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2012 :  1:21:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am a 20-year home automation user and advocate with a substantial investment in various X10 based automation technologies. Given X10's limitations I have looked at INSTEON as an alternative in the past. Now with X10 apparently struggling in the market place and the discontinuation of their CM15A my desire to find an affordable replacement has become more serious.

I am currently struggling to get answers through Smarthomes' Customer Service Solutions Center options (i.e.; 800 line, Live Chat, & custsvc@smarthome.com). The on-line product descriptions and user manuals are not adequate to satisfactorily answer my questions permitting a commitment and investment in an INSTEON system.
I am looking at and comparing these INSTEON products as an entry into the INSTEON technology;
- Part #2412N (least interested)
- Part #2413UH (more interested)
- Part #12237DB (most interested but¡K )

That said here are a few of the dozen or so questions I desire answers to, or confirmation for;
- will an INSTEON PowerLinc (PLM part #2413UH or #2413S) receive X10 RF signals?
- will an INSTEON PowerLinc (PLM part #2413UH or #2413S) receive and send X10 power-line signals?
- will an INSTEON Access Point (part #2443) receive and send X10 RF signals?
- will an INSTEON Access Point (part #2443) receive and send X10 power-line signals?

The shorter question might be are INSTEON Dual-Band (RF and power-line) modules Dual-Band X10 compatible? This is not definitively addressed in any of the INSTEON documentation I have reviewed.
Thanks for your replies in advance ;>)

Edited by - kilbournj on 10/04/2012 1:26:58 PM

LeeG
Advanced Member

USA
2244 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2012 :  2:00:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"will an INSTEON PowerLinc (PLM part #2413UH or #2413S) receive X10 RF signals?"

No.

"will an INSTEON PowerLinc (PLM part #2413UH or #2413S) receive and send X10 power-line signals?"

Yes. Basic X10 messages. Not X10 Extended messages.

"will an INSTEON Access Point (part #2443) receive and send X10 RF signals?"

No.

"will an INSTEON Access Point (part #2443) receive and send X10 power-line signals?"

No. Does not block them but does not repeat them over powerline or RF

"The shorter question might be are INSTEON Dual-Band (RF and power-line) modules Dual-Band X10 compatible?"

No. They do no block but do not repeat

Lee G
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BLH
Advanced Member

4458 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2012 :  3:23:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some of the newer revision Insteon devices may have dropped the ability to have a Primary X10 Address added to them. Their sales page would show if they still have X10 Primary Addresses avilable. If you plan on still using some X10 controllers to control them. I use a few X10 remotes with my Insteon devices that have an X10 address added to them.
The 12237Db ISY994i can send and receive basic X10 commands as LeeG indicated.
Mine sends a On command to an X10 Chime Module when triggered by some events.

If you want to get more details on the ISY994i. Here is their forums and wiki links:
http://forum.universal-devices.com/index.php
http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Edited by - BLH on 10/04/2012 3:25:36 PM
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stusviews
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USA
11389 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2012 :  3:52:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A 2413UH can receive and send X10 powerline signals. It does not have X10 RF capability.

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kilbournj
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USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2012 :  5:13:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks folks this helps with the basic ISY/PLM questions. Has anyone tried using an X10 DS7000 security console in conjunction with a #2413UH or #2413S. Given what you all have provided the X10 RF commands and extended commands will not interface with the INSTEON system, while the basic X10 on and off house and unit codes are compatible.

I understand that INSTEON has removed X10 support from its switches and plug-in modules (responders) and that does not particularly concern me as I could slowly work toward replacing my existing X10 mods with INSTEON. I am currently using a total of 50+ unit codes across 6 house codes, 2 house codes dedicated to macros.

Please correct me if I am wrong but if I use my existing X10 RF controllers (like HR12A & KR22A transmitters) with X10 (dual-band) RF/power-line receiver/transmitter units (like CM15A, PAT01, and TM751) than the power-line commands transmitted by the X10 RF transmitter/receivers mods would be received and retransmitted (without repeats) by the 2413’s. In this same vain can I assume an X10 (plug-in) power-line controller (like a CP290 ya I know this is an ancient unit) is directly compatible and will communicate X10 codes with a 2413.

Is my thinking flawed here?

Edited by - kilbournj on 10/04/2012 5:37:49 PM
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stusviews
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USA
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Posted - 10/04/2012 :  6:21:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A 2413UH can respond to a X10 powerline commands (house/unit code plus on, off, dim, bright, all lights on, all lights off, or all units off), that is, perform a task based on that command. It does not re-transmit the command (unless that's the task).

A 2413UH can also issue any of the above commands.

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kilbournj
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USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2012 :  6:52:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
O.k., so I am still trying to get a clear understanding of the INSTEON 2413 (UH or S) X10 compatibility. Here is a scenario --- An X10 key ring controller (KR22A) sends an RF unit code on command which is received by an X10 transceiver module (TM751) and transmitted as a power-line unit code on command.

Question - 1: Will an INSTEON 2413 (UH or S) receive this signal and resend a corresponding X10 unit code on command?

Question - 2: If question 1 is yes can I than assume the same 2413 responses for the corresponding X10 off, dim, bright, all lights on, all lights off, or all units off power-line commands?
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stusviews
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USA
11389 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2012 :  10:46:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj

O.k., so I am still trying to get a clear understanding of the INSTEON 2413 (UH or S) X10 compatibility. Here is a scenario --- An X10 key ring controller (KR22A) sends an RF unit code on command which is received by an X10 transceiver module (TM751) and transmitted as a power-line unit code on command.

Question - 1: Will an INSTEON 2413 (UH or S) receive this signal and resend a corresponding X10 unit code on command?


Yes, the PLM will receive the signal. No, it will not resend the command.
quote:

Question - 2: If question 1 is yes can I than assume the same 2413 responses for the corresponding X10 off, dim, bright, all lights on, all lights off, or all units off power-line commands?


Yes and no. Literally in this case

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kilbournj
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USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  1:17:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is the answer that may very well rule INSTEON out of my options. But one question begs to be asked; What value is there for a PLM receiving X10 power-line commands if it cannot, does not, respond with the corresponding X10 command. I suppose it has minimal value in recording or logging the command event but really why bother.

Why doesn’t INSTEON just openly state that X10 compatibility is limited to X10 commands sent by an INSTEON device only (ISY, HouseLinc, wired/wireless INSTEON keypad)?



Edited by - kilbournj on 10/05/2012 1:34:35 PM
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BLH
Advanced Member

4458 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  1:33:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The PLM sends the received X10 power line data to the controller connected to it for processing.
The controller connected to it can also have it send X10 power line signals to X10 devices in your home.
My ISY994i controller sends and receives X10 power line commands with no problems.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8568 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  1:37:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj

This is the answer that rules INSTEON out of the running. But one question begs to be asked; What value is there to a PLM receiving X10 power-line commands if it cannot, does not, respond with the corresponding X10 command. I suppose it has minimal value in recording or logging the command event but really why bother. ;>(



I'm really confused by your response, there's a communications breakdown here somewhere. Your ordinary x10 devices don't provide for any signal confirmations or repeats by devices, that CM15a certainly didn't have any such features. An Insteon PLM can both receive and send power line x10 house and unit codes, bright and dim commands, and preset dim commands, and many Insteon devices can be programmed to directly transmit and react to x10 messages as well. Whatever is attached to the PLM can use it to give whatever response you want--you can trigger a HouseLinc Event or ISY program to adjust your Insteon or x10 devices, to start a timer, to send an email, etc. Isn't that what you require?

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stusviews
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USA
11389 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  1:39:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Except for the purpose of repeating a signal to improve reliability (something Insteon does, but X10 doesn't), why should a PLM send out the same signal it receives? One reason might be to determine the status of a device (only 2-way X10 devices have that capability, all Insteon devices do). Neither X10 nor Inseton even require a PLM.

A PLM can be used to create, modify, and delete Insteon links and scenes and even respond to X10 signals. It can include delays and conditionals, schedule events, even more.

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kilbournj
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USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  1:51:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you! That makes far more sense and puts INSTEON well back in the running. Are there preferences for the S over the UH series PLM?
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kilbournj
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  1:55:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some of the newer X10 mods do accomidate reporting of status and the CM15A had an option to xmit repeat command.
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj

This is the answer that rules INSTEON out of the running. But one question begs to be asked; What value is there to a PLM receiving X10 power-line commands if it cannot, does not, respond with the corresponding X10 command. I suppose it has minimal value in recording or logging the command event but really why bother. ;>(



I'm really confused by your response, there's a communications breakdown here somewhere. Your ordinary x10 devices don't provide for any signal confirmations or repeats by devices, that CM15a certainly didn't have any such features. An Insteon PLM can both receive and send power line x10 house and unit codes, bright and dim commands, and preset dim commands, and many Insteon devices can be programmed to directly transmit and react to x10 messages as well. Whatever is attached to the PLM can use it to give whatever response you want--you can trigger a HouseLinc Event or ISY program to adjust your Insteon or x10 devices, to start a timer, to send an email, etc. Isn't that what you require?

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stusviews
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USA
11389 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  2:00:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
HouseLinc software requires the 2413UH which connects to a USB port. The 2413U needs an available USB port and the 2413S uses a serial port. Both the latter modems require appropriate software.

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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8568 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  2:22:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj

Some of the newer X10 mods do accomidate reporting of status and the CM15A had an option to xmit repeat command.


Definitely not the 20-year old stuff. If you want commands repeated, you could easily script events that way (receiver signal, trigger event, send x10 code, wait 1 sec., send x10 code again). In areas where device confirmation is valued, replace those units with Insteon first--Insteon signal confirmation and retransmission, repeaters built-into line-voltage devices, and scene command and control have all been standard equipment on Insteon gear since the protocol was invented.

When you say Insteon is back 'in the running', that seems odd. Since x10 is basically dead, your options are to either use Insteon with your x10 as you migrate to current-vintage technology, or to tear out all the x10 stuff and start from scratch. Either way, I would still use Insteon. Of all the competing technologies and designs it offers the most power and flexibility and supports both professional and D-I-Y installation.

Your remaining choice seems to be what you want to replace that cm15a with. If you want to leave a Windows computer running 24/7, the version of HouseLinc that ships with a 2413UH is an option. If you want to use your Android or iPhone as a remote, add a SmartLinc. If you are a Mac or Linux household or don't want to leave a computer on, an ISY kit is your best bet and does all that a SmartLinc + HouseLinc can do and much, much more.

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kilbournj
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  2:39:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think there is a considerable amount of confusion running through all of these posts so I'm going to try to pull things togeather shortly in a different post but in the mean time--- Why would a PLM receive a signal if it does not act on that received signal? I have not used INSTEON yet I did load the HouseLinc software but exploring functionality without an ISY/PLM is very limited. I currently use X10 wireless controlers to turn on and off X10 macros/scenes. It's me ASS-U-MEing I can create simular macro/scenes in HouseLinc or an ISY and my questions are in relation to that end.
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

Except for the purpose of repeating a signal to improve reliability (something Insteon does, but X10 doesn't), why should a PLM send out the same signal it receives? One reason might be to determine the status of a device (only 2-way X10 devices have that capability, all Insteon devices do). Neither X10 nor Inseton even require a PLM.

A PLM can be used to create, modify, and delete Insteon links and scenes and even respond to X10 signals. It can include delays and conditionals, schedule events, even more.

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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8568 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  2:48:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PLM stands for Power Line Modem. Your computer or ISY uses a PLM like you use a telephone. The phone or modem doesn't carry on a conversation by itself. It's a communications device, it sends and receives the bits and bytes and converts it into something each of the respective parties can understand.

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BLH
Advanced Member

4458 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  3:04:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are no presently made X10 two way modules.
Exactly what device are you using?
Or are you not in the US and using the European Modules?

Also since X10 closed there factory in China and are only having a few core modules made by an outside factory. Most X10 devices are now discontinued.
The CM15A has been out of stock for at least 6 months. They are finally getting a new one at Double the old prices.

Are you looking for a standalone unit like the CM15A that can be disconnected from a controller and use downloaded timers and simple macros?

Edited by - BLH on 10/05/2012 3:08:20 PM
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kilbournj
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  3:09:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj

Some of the newer X10 mods do accomidate reporting of status and the CM15A had an option to xmit repeat command.


Definitely not the 20-year old stuff. If you want commands repeated, you could easily script events that way (receiver signal, trigger event, send x10 code, wait 1 sec., send x10 code again). In areas where device confirmation is valued, replace those units with Insteon first--Insteon signal confirmation and retransmission, repeaters built-into line-voltage devices, and scene command and control have all been standard equipment on Insteon gear since the protocol was invented.
–This is a no-brainer. I have no problems with single X10 commands (no repeats) I have long ago resolved weak X10 and power leg problems (often incorrectly in 220v home wiring referred to as phase) with transceivers and bridging.

When you say Insteon is back 'in the running', that seems odd. Since x10 is basically dead, your options are to either use Insteon with your x10 as you migrate to current-vintage technology, or to tear out all the x10 stuff and start from scratch. Either way, I would still use Insteon. Of all the competing technologies and designs it offers the most power and flexibility and supports both professional and D-I-Y installation.
–There are a couple of other X10 compatible options out there, INSTEON is possibly the least expensive and most flexible. This is the time for a wise decision not a short cut. I also use lot of Crestron and I’ve used AMX in the past – both very expensive but very dependable. And I think INSTEON and X10 are compatible with both.

Your remaining choice seems to be what you want to replace that cm15a with. If you want to leave a Windows computer running 24/7, the version of HouseLinc that ships with a 2413UH is an option. If you want to use your Android or iPhone as a remote, add a SmartLinc. If you are a Mac or Linux household or don't want to leave a computer on, an ISY kit is your best bet and does all that a SmartLinc + HouseLinc can do and much, much more.
–This is what this post is all about. I am weighing INSTEONs’
-Part #2412N (least interested)
-Part #2413UH (more interested)
-Part #12237DB (most interested but… )
And the accompanying PLM’s to see if INSTEON is where I want to make what will be a significent investment.


Edited by - kilbournj on 10/05/2012 3:19:31 PM
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8568 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  3:28:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj
–There are a couple of other X10 compatible options out there, INSTEON is possibly the least expensive and most flexible. This is the time for a wise decision not a short cut. I also use lot of Crestron and I’ve used AMX in the past – both very expensive but very dependable. And I think INSTEON and X10 are compatible with both.


The least sane of all the options would be to install a Crestron or AMX central controller and an x10 interface (as I understand it, x10 compatibility is an optional feature 'upgrade' for them). For the price of just an AMX or Crestron controller and its installation, you could throw out every bit of x10 gear and replace everything with Insteon. Then you'd be free of that x10 anchor entirely--all Insteon communications would be two-way, all power line devices repeaters, and every device capable of controlling scenes of up to 400 members simultaneously and instantly.

quote:
–This is what this post is all about. I am weighing INSTEONs’
-Part #2412N (least interested)
-Part #2413UH (more interested)
-Part #12237DB (most interested but… )
And the accompanying PLM’s to see if INSTEON is where I want to make what will be a significent investment.



It sounds like you are technically sophisticated enough to manage an ISY. That is my recommendation for you. You cannot buy one here, this is just a user-to-user forum. You can buy a kit that contains the ISY and a PLM either through the main Smarthome.com website or directly from Universal Devices.

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kilbournj
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  3:34:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don’t really care about the X10 stuff other than how INSTEON can control my existing mods. I have several X10 devices which report status – I think that would fall into the extended command area that INSTEON does not recognize – fine I don’t care. I have 2 functioning CM15A’s and don’t plan on purchasing any more – I’m done with X10 and reviewing my options. INSTEON is not the only one – it’s just the least expensive and most user friendly. That may or may not be my best choice 20 years ago it was – today it’s different! Thanks for your input.
quote:
Originally posted by BLH

There are no presently made X10 two way modules.
Exactly what device are you using?
Or are you not in the US and using the European Modules?

Also since X10 closed there factory in China and are only having a few core modules made by an outside factory. Most X10 devices are now discontinued.
The CM15A has been out of stock for at least 6 months. They are finally getting a new one at Double the old prices.

Are you looking for a standalone unit like the CM15A that can be disconnected from a controller and use downloaded timers and simple macros?


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kilbournj
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  3:37:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj

I don’t really care about the X10 stuff other than how INSTEON can control my existing mods. I have several X10 devices which report status (including some Leviton – I think that would fall into the extended command area that INSTEON does not recognize – fine I don’t care. I have 2 functioning CM15A’s and don’t plan on purchasing any more – I’m done with X10 and reviewing my options. INSTEON is not the only one – it’s just the least expensive and most user friendly. That may or may not be my best choice 20 years ago it was – today it’s different! Thanks for your input.
quote:
Originally posted by BLH

There are no presently made X10 two way modules.
Exactly what device are you using?
Or are you not in the US and using the European Modules?

Also since X10 closed there factory in China and are only having a few core modules made by an outside factory. Most X10 devices are now discontinued.
The CM15A has been out of stock for at least 6 months. They are finally getting a new one at Double the old prices.

Are you looking for a standalone unit like the CM15A that can be disconnected from a controller and use downloaded timers and simple macros?




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kilbournj
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  3:37:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj

quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj

I don’t really care about the X10 stuff other than how INSTEON can control my existing mods. I have several X10 devices which report status (including some Leviton) – I think that would fall into the extended command area that INSTEON does not recognize – fine I don’t care. I have 2 functioning CM15A’s and don’t plan on purchasing any more – I’m done with X10 and reviewing my options. INSTEON is not the only one – it’s just the least expensive and most user friendly. That may or may not be my best choice 20 years ago it was – today it’s different! Thanks for your input.
quote:
Originally posted by BLH

There are no presently made X10 two way modules.
Exactly what device are you using?
Or are you not in the US and using the European Modules?

Also since X10 closed there factory in China and are only having a few core modules made by an outside factory. Most X10 devices are now discontinued.
The CM15A has been out of stock for at least 6 months. They are finally getting a new one at Double the old prices.

Are you looking for a standalone unit like the CM15A that can be disconnected from a controller and use downloaded timers and simple macros?






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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8568 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  3:42:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
FWIW, the size of the purchase you make is entirely up to you. (Home controls don't qualify as an investment--since they go down in value over time instead of appreciating, they are an expense like any other household electronics.)

Insteon does scale well. You can start with just an ISY and PLM to control your x10 gear, then add one or two or twenty or hundreds of Insteon devices as time and budget allows or as x10 device failures necessitate.

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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11389 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  3:46:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj

I think there is a considerable amount of confusion running through all of these posts so I'm going to try to pull things togeather shortly in a different post but in the mean time--- Why would a PLM receive a signal if it does not act on that received signal?


It's been mentioned several times that the PLM can and does respond to the received signal, be it Insteon or X10. It does not repeat an X10 signal unless you tell (program) it to. Insteon repetition is built-in so there's no need to do anything.

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kilbournj
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2012 :  4:31:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj
–There are a couple of other X10 compatible options out there, INSTEON is possibly the least expensive and most flexible. This is the time for a wise decision not a short cut. I also use lot of Crestron and I’ve used AMX in the past – both very expensive but very dependable. And I think INSTEON and X10 are compatible with both.


The least sane of all the options would be to install a Crestron or AMX central controller and an x10 interface (as I understand it, x10 compatibility is an optional feature 'upgrade' for them). For the price of just an AMX or Crestron controller and its installation, you could throw out every bit of x10 gear and replace everything with Insteon. Then you'd be free of that x10 anchor entirely--all Insteon communications would be two-way, all power line devices repeaters, and every device capable of controlling scenes of up to 400 members simultaneously and instantly.

- I can install and program a Creston myself and one can find a lot of used interface hardware for very low cost but I agree with your first sentence – just for different reasons. I’m not interested in throwing out all the X10 and starting from scratch if I can find a product that will interface adequately, allowing me to transition at my own pace. I just cannot seem to get definitive answers to my questions regarding INSTEONs’ X10 compatibility

quote:
–This is what this post is all about. I am weighing INSTEONs’
-Part #2412N (least interested)
-Part #2413UH (more interested)
-Part #12237DB (most interested but… )
And the accompanying PLM’s to see if INSTEON is where I want to make what will be a significent investment.



It sounds like you are technically sophisticated enough to manage an ISY. That is my recommendation for you. You cannot buy one here, this is just a user-to-user forum. You can buy a kit that contains the ISY and a PLM either through the main Smarthome.com website or directly from Universal Devices.

-Well before I came to this forum I researched the INSTEON and Smarthome sites for product, pricing, but most of all answers to my X10 compatibility questions. Unable to find answers surfing product descriptions, user manual pdf’s, and emails to Smarthome’s Customer Service Solutions Center, I ended up here.




Edited by - kilbournj on 10/05/2012 4:36:08 PM
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kilbournj
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Posted - 10/05/2012 :  4:35:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
-Not an investment - This is where I might slightly disagree with you. A home is an investment and properly implemented, maintained and managed adding home automation can increase the value of a home. Any loss in value is simply the cost one pays for the convenience -- A roof depreciates over time but it still adds value and is an investment.
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

FWIW, the size of the purchase you make is entirely up to you. (Home controls don't qualify as an investment--since they go down in value over time instead of appreciating, they are an expense like any other household electronics.)

Insteon does scale well. You can start with just an ISY and PLM to control your x10 gear, then add one or two or twenty or hundreds of Insteon devices as time and budget allows or as x10 device failures necessitate.


Edited by - kilbournj on 10/05/2012 5:09:50 PM
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kilbournj
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Posted - 10/05/2012 :  4:59:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think a good part of the confusion here is attributed to the 3-R’s. Receive – Respond – Repeat and you stusviews may have come back with the clearest answer to date. Let’s forget about REPEAT! We all understand INSTEON does not (automatically) REPEAT X10 commands. So let me return to an earlier scenario---

Am I wrong -- I use my existing X10 RF controllers (like HR12A & KR22A transmitters) with X10 (dual-band) RF/power-line receiver/transmitter units (like CM15A, PAT01, and TM751) than the power-line commands transmitted by the X10 RF transceiver mods would be received and (not retransmitted) responded to (without repeats) by INSTEON (ISY/PLM/HomeLinc) with an appropriate X10 (or dependant upon programming - INSTEON) command (response). In this same vain can I assume an X10 (plug-in) power-line controller (like a CP290) is directly compatible and will communicate X10 codes in this same fashion -- correct?


quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj

I think there is a considerable amount of confusion running through all of these posts so I'm going to try to pull things togeather shortly in a different post but in the mean time--- Why would a PLM receive a signal if it does not act on that received signal?


It's been mentioned several times that the PLM can and does respond to the received signal, be it Insteon or X10. It does not repeat an X10 signal unless you tell (program) it to. Insteon repetition is built-in so there's no need to do anything.


Edited by - kilbournj on 10/05/2012 5:15:47 PM
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stusviews
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Posted - 10/05/2012 :  5:23:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kilbournj
Am I wrong -- I use my existing X10 RF controllers (like HR12A & KR22A transmitters) with X10 (dual-band) RF/power-line receiver/transmitter units (like CM15A, PAT01, and TM751) than the power-line commands transmitted by the X10 RF transceiver mods would be received and (not retransmitted) responded to (without repeats) by INSTEON (ISY/PLM/HomeLinc) with an appropriate X10 command (response).


Nope. The ISY/PLM/HouseLinc (not HomeLink which is a different product) will respond as it is programmed to respond. The X10 command is only a trigger. For example, you can send an X10 A3 dim and program the PLM to send an X10 B5 off in response or ramp up an Insteon device to 50% brightness over a period of 2 seconds. You even can program it to send an X10 A3 dim, but it will not automatically send one. In fact, if you don't program it to do anything when you send that X10 A3 dim, then it won't do anything.

The X10 sending device will still place the X10 command on the powerline, but unless you tell the PLM to do something with that command, the PLM will ignore it.

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kilbournj
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Posted - 10/05/2012 :  6:01:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Folks I just want to thank all of you for your responses to date. Every one of them has positively contributed to the discussion on this topic. Perhaps I should have mentioned earlier that while I am a Starting Member to this forum I am not a novice to this technology. I have some very specific questions that I am looking for definitive answers to. If there is any terminology or nomenclature you would like to use to assist in clarifying our communications please do not be bashful – shout it out.

I like using the 3-R’s (Receive – Respond – Repeat) stusviews brought to my attention and eliminating the use of resend and retransmit, given the accompanying confusion.
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