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Paul Bates
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2012 :  9:32:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been wanting to replace my RCSX10 Stats with the new insteon stat but can't get out of the chute.

I got it installed and wired without linking to anything. I wired the previous stat (RCSTX15B) in this spot and I am sure about the wiring. I can turn the fan on and off, and I can set the mode and turn it on. That's when my problems start.

All on its own and only some of the time, when it enters "Heating" mode, the heat setpoint drops from whatever I have it set to (67 or 68) to 65 all on its own. The stat then begins heating and goes on and on without stopping. It woke us up one night when the house was boiling. The up and down arrows do nothing when this happens.. it requires a mode set to off, mode set to heat and then up arrow to 67.

I called SH and they nicely sent me another one on RMA... the problem is this new one does it too. I'm really stuck because I am out of town M-Th and I got this to help me monitor and control the house better when I am back.

I now have it connected to homeseer and have events that catch it in the act and force it back to normal the way I do it manually... Set mode off, set mode heat and put the right setpoint in.

Am I doing something wrong? Anyone else seeing this?

Edit: I did factory resets on both of units after they exhibited the problem
Paul

Edited by - Paul Bates on 10/06/2012 9:53:59 PM

stusviews
Moderator

USA
11449 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2012 :  1:14:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Did you replace/remove both the wall unit and the control unit? Do you have both heating and cooling? If so, then the TX15 uses 4 wires, the 2441TH requires 5. What did you do about the fifth wire?

The thermostat is X10 compatible. Does Homeseer do any thermostat control (other than what you described)?

Describe the current wiring at both ends.

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Paul Bates
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2012 :  5:48:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Stu
Yes, I removed the TX15B wall unit and control unit, powersupply and PSC05. I connected the 2441TH to the actual HVAC 5 wire bunder, not the TX15B control unit. I have both heating and cooling single stage. I took pictures and added the labels from the 2441TH box (picture below)

There was an unused 5th wire in the bundle, yellow that I hooked to C in the furnace and the to C terminal of the Stat (top). Switching modes to heat and cool activates the appropriate HVAC units and the manual fan button works as well

Not clear I am understanding, the 2441 is x10 compatible? In addition to a full physical de-installation, I removed the tx15b configuration from HS and deleted its devices and disabled events that worked with it before installing the 2441th. Even if it is x10 compatible, it could not have known the house code I allocated for the TX15B

I have one remaining RCSTX10B that still functions properly. I remotely activate its fan and a duct booster based on a separate and unrelated sensor. The two stats do not interact in any way.

Also, I was able to replicate the problem I'm having before addressing it from Insteon network at all... no linking or software configuration until I was sure the problem was occurring without being connected to the network.


I pulled the cover on the controller on the furnace and looked at what letters went with what colors on each color in the bundle. (I had to do this 7 years ago when I put the RCS in). I validated the terminals this time as well as uncoiling the unused 5th wire (yellow) and using it for C on both ends. The other variation is that Blue had been used as stage one cool when the hvac system was installed. The 5 colors in the wire bundle are whats there. The other wires comply with the standard.

Here is a picture of the stat end I took to document what I did.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/199448_4873825169363_692182512_n.jpg
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11449 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2012 :  6:20:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I omitted referring to the old thermostat, "The TX15 thermostat is X10 compatible. Does Homeseer do any thermostat control (other than what you described)?"

It seems that you did everything correctly, including deleting the old thermostat from HS. Do you have any Insteon controllers other than HS? Does the change occur whether you are or are not in Auto mode? Heat mode? Programmed mode?

BTW, electrons don't care about the color of the wire, only the connections at each end


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Edited by - stusviews on 10/07/2012 6:23:38 PM
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Paul Bates
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 10/08/2012 :  05:14:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Stu, thanks

I have a 30 device insteon network (this will be 31) connected to a 2413U PLM controlled by HS. That's the only controller. I have a mix of lighting, garage door, 2 EZFloras, duct booster and attic fan control. Of all my insteon learnings, I was looking for this to be fairly simple

I have a mix of Dual band switches and access points and the signal to the stat appears good but I don't have a way to directly tell. When I configure it to HS and send commands, the commands hit every time and quickly.

I didn't test in the other modes either time.

Here is where I am at:

* I think I got the wiring right. And, if the RCS could control it as a standard replacement stat with the same wires (except common C), the 2441TH should as well. If the wiring is wrong, I don't know what to do next.

* If its demonstrating the problem before doing anything to address it from the insteon network... eg no links created, just simply attach it to the wall as a local stat... then that means the network is not responsible...

* When I do connnect it to the network via homeseer I am able to detect the problem when it occurs, send commands to put it back where it belongs with events, but that is not a sustainable solution

* Its hard to rule out a local problem at the house when 2 new out of the box 2441THs do it in a row and there are no other reports like mine here or on Homeseer's board. Yet again, knowing that, I don't know what to do next


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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11449 Posts

Posted - 10/08/2012 :  11:22:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Which mode is the thermostat mode in when the changes occur? Is the time of the change fairly consistent? Did you program the thermostat?

Nothing definitive, BTW. I'm probing for a possible cause

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Paul Bates
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 10/08/2012 :  12:08:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Stu no problem, its not consistent.

It was a basic test right out of the chute. I put it in heat mode to validate that its working. I never got any further with features other than temp calibration. The "setpoint switch to 65 and run the furnance until manual intervention" was random and created havoc at home... like spouse waking up a 3:30 am to an 80 degree house (normally 68) and the furnace is still going... several times.

The basic problem is me being gone 4 days a week and wasn't anticipating this happening as a risk. I went this route to not have to worry about the house so much and unfortunately the opposite has been true for reasons I can't identify. If I had done this a few weeks earlier when the weather was milder and the heater wasn't very active I probably could have figured it out but its too late in the year now to try and put one in and validate it in 2 days on a weekend. I talked to SH chat today and was able to work out a return for it.

Thanks for responding, I appreciate it.
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anthon710
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2012 :  07:22:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
I just installed a 2441th on my system and every time the heat or ac comes on the thermostat loses power. It seems like it is just not enough power because the screen flickers on and off. It also isn't able to fully turn on the heat or ac while it is flickering but I'm guessing that's a problem with the relays not getting enough power in the thermostat.

The system was originally a 4 wire but I added another blue wire to the X terminal on the Lenox control box to make it a 5 wire system.


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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11449 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2012 :  1:46:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anthon710
The system was originally a 4 wire but I added another blue wire to the X terminal on the Lenox control box to make it a 5 wire system.


Which Lennox panel? The blue wire normally connects to terminal C.

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anthon710
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2012 :  8:18:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks for the reply,

I had to look it up because I've never seen this before but there is no C terminal on this unit... it's an X terminal that this system uses instead of C.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11449 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2012 :  8:32:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Which Lennox control panel? How many zones?

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nfrobertson
Starting Member

2 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2013 :  5:01:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Paul,

I have this exact same problem. I just ordered and installed my first 2441TH. I have a Rheem Criterion II furnace, single stage gas heat and single stage a/c. Previous thermostat was a simple programable one that worked great. It only used 4 of the 5 wires as it didn't need the C (blue) since it had batteries (accoding to it's manual) So, turned off the furnace, took out old thermostat, connected the blue to C on furnace and prep'd the wires at the 2441TH end. Was very careful about the wires and kept them to a minimum inside the 2441TH itself (per instructions) Turned on furnace and proceeded to try and use the heat mode. It started the furnace, called for heat but when it was timefor the blower to kick in, the 2441TH decided to change modes to cool! So, I stepped it through the modes back to heat and this time after calling for heat, at blower start it decides to kick in the Energy mode which sets back the settings 4 degrees and since that was larger than my 1 degree manual setting turned off the heat. Another round and I find it switcing to auto mode.

I have since RMA'd that first 2441TH and just today received my 2nd one. I was extermely careful installing it. Unfortunately it does exactly the same thing. Both are v1.6 (5212).

Next step will be to isoloate this with a clean short run of new thermostat wire to confirm there are no issues with house wiring. UGH.



Edited by - nfrobertson on 04/02/2013 5:21:39 PM
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pgershon
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  4:52:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nfrobertson

Paul,

I have this exact same problem. I just ordered and installed my first 2441TH. I have a Rheem Criterion II furnace, single stage gas heat and single stage a/c. Previous thermostat was a simple programable one that worked great. It only used 4 of the 5 wires as it didn't need the C (blue) since it had batteries (accoding to it's manual) So, turned off the furnace, took out old thermostat, connected the blue to C on furnace and prep'd the wires at the 2441TH end. Was very careful about the wires and kept them to a minimum inside the 2441TH itself (per instructions) Turned on furnace and proceeded to try and use the heat mode. It started the furnace, called for heat but when it was timefor the blower to kick in, the 2441TH decided to change modes to cool! So, I stepped it through the modes back to heat and this time after calling for heat, at blower start it decides to kick in the Energy mode which sets back the settings 4 degrees and since that was larger than my 1 degree manual setting turned off the heat. Another round and I find it switcing to auto mode.

I have since RMA'd that first 2441TH and just today received my 2nd one. I was extermely careful installing it. Unfortunately it does exactly the same thing. Both are v1.6 (5212).

Next step will be to isoloate this with a clean short run of new thermostat wire to confirm there are no issues with house wiring. UGH.






I have had same issues. On 3 units now. They come in and out of energy mode and sometimes go from heat to cool mode. I have no idea why
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nfrobertson
Starting Member

2 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2013 :  09:33:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I RMA'd my 2nd 2441TH as it had the exact same issues. In/out of Energy mode and would also switch to Cool or Auto modes. This always seems to happen during the call for heat which on my furnace seems to have 3 operations, start vent motor, fire up gas burners and finally start blower. It's when the blower starts that the 2441TH will, about 75% of the time, change modes (energy, or cool/auto).

Smarthome tech recommended the Venstar T1800 (model 30411A) and the Insteon thermostat adapter (model 2441V) He said the the Venstar doesn't have these issues. Anyone have any thoughts on that alternate setup (good/bad) ?
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wshore
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2014 :  3:08:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a 2441TH and it is going into energy mode. This happens about twice a month. Mostly when the heat comes on.

I wanted to set the energy setback amount, but I see houselinc does not have an option for that. The 2441Th manual says to use houselinc, but there is nothing under properties to change it.

That is the only issue I have with the 2441TH. Not sure what to do about it.
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