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 How to override the motion sensor?
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soda97
New Member

18 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2012 :  4:54:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I just bought the Insteon motion sensor and their LED light.

Is there a way I can override the motion sensor so that when I turn the switch on again and the light stays on temporarily?

I'm new to this. Do I need additional hardware and software to do that?


Thanks in advance,
soda

Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8604 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2012 :  5:20:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can change the position of the jumpers to make the sensor transmit only when it is dark, or you can power it with a 9 volt battery eliminator that you can turn on and off when desired, or instead of linking the motion sensor directly to the light module you can use home automation software to control the circumstances when motion triggers an event and when it doesn't, but no, there's no mode on the LED bulb or the motion sensor to temporarily disable either.

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soda97
New Member

18 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2012 :  5:58:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
o so what is the cheapest way to do so?


Thanks in advance,
soda
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2012 :  6:05:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by soda97
I just bought the Insteon motion sensor and their LED light.

Is there a way I can override the motion sensor so that when I turn the switch on again and the light stays on temporarily?


What switch?

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soda97
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18 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2012 :  6:29:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
just a regular switch, I read somewhere some motion sensor can switch off the power then turn it back on will temporary disable it. Not sure by default or have to write a trigger event. I have no clue.


Thanks in advance,
soda
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2012 :  6:44:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The Insteon Motion Sensor has no way to communicate with a standard switch. The Insteon LED bulb needs unswitched power.

Do you have a standard switch that controls the light now?

Edit: the In-LineLinc included with the Insteon Floodlight Motion Sensor kit can be overridden by a separate Insteon controller.

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Edited by - stusviews on 11/16/2012 6:59:48 PM
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soda97
New Member

18 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2012 :  7:25:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes I have a standard switch, if I get the switchlinc then can I override it?


Thanks in advance,
soda
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2012 :  8:16:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you have a standard switch, then the Insteon LED bulb is not appropriate. That's because the LED bulb requires unswitched power or it cannot be controlled.

Only the In-LineLinc with sense connected to a wired non-Insteon motion sensor has the capability to override that particular motion sensor.

Do you have more than two wires at the switch? Do not count the ground wire.

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soda97
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18 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2012 :  9:28:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you mean the white neutral wire? I think so.


soda
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2012 :  9:53:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is my question.
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews
Do you have more than two wires at the switch? Do not count the ground wire.


You have an answer
quote:
Originally posted by soda97
you mean the white neutral wire? I think so.


but it is not the answer to my question.

BTW, if you do have only two wires (not counting the ground wire) at the switch, then the white wire is NOT a neutral.

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soda97
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18 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2012 :  08:54:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes I have 4 wires total.

Is it better off if I get the HouseLinc - INSTEON Desktop Software with USB Interface (Dual-Band)?


Thanks in advance,
soda
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2012 :  1:26:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
HouseLinc is for Insteon management. You still need the devices to be managed.

What are the wire colors and what is each color wire connected to?

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soda97
New Member

18 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2012 :  07:35:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
o, I have 2 black 1 white 1 copper.

So any way I can turn the light on temporarily?


Thanks in advance,
soda
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
2518 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2012 :  10:14:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, If you get an insteon switch.

Your wire colors make me suspect you either have an older house, or that some of your wires have been repurposed. As asked by stusviews, to what are your three conductors (ignoring bare copper) connected?
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2012 :  12:39:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by soda97

o, I have 2 black 1 white 1 copper.


Help is easier to provide if you answer the questions. It's impossible to offer accurate help if you don't.
quote:

What are the wire colors and what is each color wire connected to?


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soda97
New Member

18 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2012 :  12:46:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes I might have an older house, I just moved in here.

I just recently installed a Honeywell Econoswitch RPLS740B Programmable Switch that uses line, load and neutral.

So will this switch work?

SwitchLinc On/Off - INSTEON Remote Control Switch (Dual-Band), White

How does it work with the Insteon LED light 'coz my regular switch is always turn on right now but the light only turns on by motion?


Thanks in advance,
soda
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
2518 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2012 :  4:59:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I just recently installed a Honeywell Econoswitch RPLS740B Programmable Switch that uses line, load and neutral.

So will this switch work?


Is this an insteon switch? If not, see earlier responses (you need an insteon switch to override the motion sensor). Since you have not answered stusviews questions fully, it is difficult to provide you any assistance beyond the general.

I understand you have the battery operated motion sensor and the insteon LED bulb. Correct? For you to be able to override the motion sensor turning on and off the bulb, you will need a controller such as the ISY-99 (or, perhaps, the houselinc as you asked about earlier). You will need an insteon switch to act as an override. You will need to program your controller to react the way you want, based on motion sensor and switch inputs. You will probably need a couple of access points to make sure everything can communicate well. You will need to assess your wiring to ensure you have the necessary conductors to install the insteon switch (hot, neutral, ground).

The honeywell switch serves no purpose in this arrangement. A standard switch serves no purpose in this arrangement.

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soda97
New Member

18 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2012 :  7:49:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yea I know about that. I'm not too familiar with wiring. All I know is I installed the honeywell switch and I have the line, load, neutral and ground wire in the box. Is that what you guys ask me about or is it something else?

Yes I have the battery operated motion sensor + the LED bulb.

Wow sounds like I need a lot of things and isn't cheap just to make it override?


Thanks,
soda
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2012 :  8:36:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you have line, load, and neutral, then you only need a SwitchLinc and an In-LineLinc. Connect the switch return (load) from the SwitchLinc to the load wire from the In-LineLinc and both to the load. Link the motion sensor to the In-LineLinc. When the Switchlinc is turned on it will bypass the motion sensor. DO NOT USE THE INSTEON BULB.

BTW, you have still not answered my questions despite several reminders even from another poster. I won't assist without such responses

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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
2518 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  06:14:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Wow sounds like I need a lot of things and isn't cheap just to make it override?


Just to be clear, this solution is based upon continued use of your bulb and motion sensor. If you are willing to find another use for your insteon bulb, and can find room to install in inlinelinc in the fixture that you wish to respond to the motion sensor, the recommendation by stusviews is worth considering.
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
2518 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  10:27:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
If you have line, load, and neutral, then you only need a SwitchLinc and an In-LineLinc. Connect the switch return (load) from the SwitchLinc to the load wire from the In-LineLinc and both to the load. Link the motion sensor to the In-LineLinc.


Stusviews...are you suggesting to connect the switched output of the switchlinc and inlinelinc? Should one be concerned about the possibility that these two might be on a different leg? If taking this approach, why does the switch need to be insteon-capable? This sounds like a risky approach, to me. What am I missing?

While I don't see any mention of this in the manual, I recall that an inlinelinc (with sense) can be bypassed by reciept of a "fast on" from a linked device. Am I remembering correctly? If so, does this offer a better solution than backfeeding the inlinelinc?
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  2:24:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
oberkc, a fast off will bypass the sense circuit in the In-LineLinc with sense. In particular, it will bypass a hard-wired motion sensor or other source of power connected to the sense wire. It will not bypass Insteon signals such as those sent by the motions sensor.

If a standard switch controls a light, then they are not only on the same circuit, but on the same branch of that circuit. Any number of switches can be wired in parallel safely. With that configuration, any one switch will close (complete) the circuit, but all must be off to open the circuit. In other words, if any one switch is on, the light is lit no matter the position of the other switches. The devices do not need to be Insteon.

Using Insteon devices, the motion sensor can control the In-LineLinc. But, if the SwitchLinc is on, it doesn't matter what the motion sensor does.

Here's what I use in our dining room that gives us three levels of brightness:
Motion sensor turns on light (via In-LineLinc dimmer) to 25% when dark, the Switchlinc dimmer is preset to 50% for dining and bypasses the In-LineLinc. We also have 100% for cleaning.


Again, this is OK only if the original standard switch controled the light and there is line, load and neutral at the switch and fixture.

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soda97
New Member

18 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  4:31:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry If I didnt answer the question right, I'm new to all these...

So I was looking at the switchlinc and inlinelinc and I found this

RemoteLinc 2 - INSTEON Wireless Switch

Will that work for my purpose to turn the LED bulb on?


Thanks again,
Soda
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  4:36:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You didn't answer my last question at all!

Yes, you can use any Insteon wireless controller to operate the light. An Access Point will allow you to use wired Insteon devices, too.

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MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
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soda97
New Member

18 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  4:50:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yea I dont understand the question? 2 black wires line and load, 1 neutral white wire and the ground wire?

So I can just get that wireless switch to control the LED bulb and also with the motion sensor?

Thanks,
Soda
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  5:13:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, both the motion sensor and wireless switch can control the bulb.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
2518 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  6:10:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
If a standard switch controls a light, then they are not only on the same circuit, but on the same branch of that circuit.


Yes, I suspected that was assumed. However, for posterity sake, I am glad this point is stated (or restated). Even still, I would prefer the option to keep the switch load line capped, and use the fast-off command to disable an inlinelinc (and, thus, motion sensor).
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
11462 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  7:02:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sending a fast On (or Off) will not prevent the In-LineLinc with sense from responding to Insteon signals. It will disable the sense circuit. The sense circuit responds to line voltage. Applying line voltage to the sense wire is the same as an On paddle press, that is, it will send the Insteon signal to linked responders. An Off press is duplicated by disconnecting that voltage.

The Insteon floodlight kit uses a line voltage motion sensor connected to the sense wire, but anything that can connect and disconnect line voltage will work, even a standard switch. This allows someone doing a restoration, for example, to use older push-button switches

and still maintain Insteon control.

Sending a fast On (or Off) to the In-LineLinc with sense disables that ability. Sending another fast On (or Off) re-enables it. It does not prevent another Insteon device, such as the Insteon motion sensor from controlling the In-LineLinc.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
2518 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2012 :  03:32:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Sending a fast On (or Off) will not prevent the In-LineLinc with sense from responding to Insteon signals. It will disable the sense circuit.


Yes. Thanks for the clarification. This approach works only if you have a motion sensor hard-wired to the sense line. And, yes, it does not disable response to other insteon devices, such battery-operated motion sensors.

quote:
Yea I dont understand the question?


The question was "what is each color wire connected to" and "to what are your three conductors (ignoring bare copper) connected?"
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