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Kib
Starting Member

9 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2006 :  7:39:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, did a search using keywords "flicker" and "flutter"...

I've been wiring up the new place and ran into two circuits that flicker/flutter.

3-way circuit replacement.
Two 200 amp breaker panels.
One pair of RF links
Timer controller in general area - no link problem
Tried Halogen, as well as incand. lamps
Other 3-way and 4-way replacements have worked fine.
Dim appears to reduce effect slightly
Appears to be wired correctly (doesn't work at all if wires swapped)

Almost seems like the circuit is not getting full wattage...

Waddaya think folks?????

(BTW - We had a fellow over looking to help decorate, and one of the automated lights went on.... my WIFE started talking up the system, so keep the faith guys, it only took me three houses over 15 years to get her to drink the home automation kool-aid!!!)

Thanks in advance


QuickCarl
Average Member

USA
100 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  05:30:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit QuickCarl's Homepage  Send QuickCarl an AOL message  Reply with Quote
What are the respective loads of the circuits that flicker?

Carl Chapman - COO at Interview on Demand, LLC
Video Interviews | Career Video Expert >> Blog | Video Interview Service - FREE Trial | Hiring Technology Newsletter
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Kib
Starting Member

9 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  07:38:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Carl -

One was 250W (I used V2's on that circuit) 5x50W lamps
The other was 100W with Icons 2x50W lamps

Thanks for asking !!!!

EDIT: BTW - I put in a 3-way Lutron Smart Dimmer on the 250W circuit as a stopgap in case the INSTION problem can't get resolved, and there's no flicker



Edited by - Kib on 04/27/2006 07:45:07 AM
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mike
Advanced Member

USA
1131 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  09:00:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit mike's Homepage  Send mike an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Kib,

When are you seeing this flicker? Randomly, when you turn on the light, when you plug in a vacuum, etc.

SmartLabsMike
INSTEON - Linking Everything to Everything Else.
http://www.insteon.net
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QuickCarl
Average Member

USA
100 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  11:16:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit QuickCarl's Homepage  Send QuickCarl an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Are those incandescent loads? Only thing I could think of were bad switches or loose wires in the box.

I have had wierd dimming with florscent bulbs (the incandescent replacement kind) where they just dim in levels, and some flickering with Applicancelincs connected to an florescent light (used to back light my plasma tv) because it doesn't turn the switch all the way off, it dims to 0% I think... or something like that...

Your problems sounds sort of bizzare.

Carl Chapman - COO at Interview on Demand, LLC
Video Interviews | Career Video Expert >> Blog | Video Interview Service - FREE Trial | Hiring Technology Newsletter
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Kib
Starting Member

9 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  12:57:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike & Carl -

Yes, incandescent loads. The flicker happens consistantly when the light is turned on, no randomness and happens regardless of anything else being on or off elsewhere.

Way odd, but I appreciate some of the greatest minds in the country trying to help me with this... (Yeah, I AM talking about you !!!!)
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Donby
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2006 :  12:37:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm having the same problem except it's only when I press and hold for dim bright. The weird thing is that a switch seemingly unrelated to the kitchen (problem circuit) also causes the flicker when i turn it on or off. I really feel like the firmware engineers at smartlabs are trying to tell us something...but what?
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Stowaway
Average Member

USA
143 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2006 :  02:46:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a flicker problem too.
I wanted to use Insteon to control malibu outdoor lighting with LED bulbs but they flicker when turned on. I left them on for about 10 minutes and the flicker continued so I removed the 2456D3 and went back to my old intermatic timers.
This was a problem with my X10 plug-ins which I removed. No flicker with the same malibu system using incandescent bulbs but LEDs last longer at lower cost. The smarthome technician I discussed this with last year thought Insteon might solve the problem but no such luck.
Anyone with ideas please pass them on....

Edited by - Stowaway on 06/20/2006 03:35:09 AM
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mike
Advanced Member

USA
1131 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2006 :  08:47:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit mike's Homepage  Send mike an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stowaway

I have a flicker problem too.
I wanted to use Insteon to control malibu outdoor lighting with LED bulbs but they flicker when turned on. I left them on for about 10 minutes and the flicker continued so I removed the 2456D3 and went back to my old intermatic timers.
This was a problem with my X10 plug-ins which I removed. No flicker with the same malibu system using incandescent bulbs but LEDs last longer at lower cost. The smarthome technician I discussed this with last year thought Insteon might solve the problem but no such luck.
Anyone with ideas please pass them on....



Stowaway,

Do you need to dim your outdoor LED lights? If not you should not use a 2456D3 but instead a 2456S3 the appliance module. I ran into this last weekend where an LED bulb did not want to cooperate with a lamp dimmer, I swapped it for an appliancelinc and everything worked as expected.


SmartLabsMike
INSTEON - Linking Everything to Everything Else.
http://www.insteon.net
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Stowaway
Average Member

USA
143 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2006 :  10:41:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mike

quote:
Originally posted by Stowaway

I have a flicker problem too.
I wanted to use Insteon to control malibu outdoor lighting with LED bulbs but they flicker when turned on. I left them on for about 10 minutes and the flicker continued so I removed the 2456D3 and went back to my old intermatic timers.
This was a problem with my X10 plug-ins which I removed. No flicker with the same malibu system using incandescent bulbs but LEDs last longer at lower cost. The smarthome technician I discussed this with last year thought Insteon might solve the problem but no such luck.
Anyone with ideas please pass them on....


Stowaway,
Do you need to dim your outdoor LED lights? If not you should not use a 2456D3 but instead a 2456S3 the appliance module. I ran into this last weekend where an LED bulb did not want to cooperate with a lamp dimmer, I swapped it for an appliancelinc and everything worked as expected.

That's great news!
I have some 2856S3B on order, will they work?
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mike
Advanced Member

USA
1131 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2006 :  3:02:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit mike's Homepage  Send mike an AOL message  Reply with Quote
yes.

SmartLabsMike
INSTEON - Linking Everything to Everything Else.
http://www.insteon.net
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Stowaway
Average Member

USA
143 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2006 :  4:11:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mike

yes.

Thank you for your quick response
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matthunter
Average Member

140 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2006 :  10:43:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is the flicker hardly noticeable or is it very dramatic? When I have my keypadlinc V2 dimmed and stare into the lights I can really see them flicker (my wife confirmed it just to make sure I wasn't going crazy.) But this flicker is very very slight, perhaps most people wouldn't notice it. I'd love to put a scope on the line to see what the waveform looked like.
I've also noticed that when the keypad's local load is dimmed, then I press on of the other buttons on the keypad (which controls lights in other rooms of the house) the local load light flashes a little. It's very minor, but I do notice it every time.

Is that what you mean when you say your lights flicker?

Matt
220, 221 whatever it takes!
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Stowaway
Average Member

USA
143 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2006 :  1:56:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by matthunter

Is the flicker hardly noticeable or is it very dramatic? When I have my keypadlinc V2 dimmed and stare into the lights I can really see them flicker (my wife confirmed it just to make sure I wasn't going crazy.) But this flicker is very very slight, perhaps most people wouldn't notice it. I'd love to put a scope on the line to see what the waveform looked like.
I've also noticed that when the keypad's local load is dimmed, then I press on of the other buttons on the keypad (which controls lights in other rooms of the house) the local load light flashes a little. It's very minor, but I do notice it every time.

Is that what you mean when you say your lights flicker?

If your message was to me, my led based outside lights flicker completely off and then back on fairly rapidly. I will repost when I try the appliance modules to see if they solve the problem.....
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Donby
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2006 :  4:05:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My kitchen lights flicker completely on and off really fast about 3 or 4 times before increasing or decreasing in intensity when I press and hold up or down. In addition they flicker when I turn on or off one of the other lights on a completely different circuit nearby, but no other lights have this affect on my posessed kitchen lights. Have I wired something wrong? I still really feel like the firmware engineers is saying "yeah, I'll brighten but you have your load and neutral wires reversed" or something to that affect...
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RTQ
New Member

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2006 :  11:17:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit RTQ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have a wall unit that has six 40w high intensity bulbs controlled by a single LampLinc V2 dimmer. These lights consistently flicker or flash brightly when I use the ControLinc (2430) to dim an entirely different light at the opposite end of the room. Hmmm.

It's necessary that I be able to dim these lights, so I don't want to use an appliance module.

Any thoughts?

Rick Quisenberry
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gbdesai
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2006 :  06:19:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had the same problem with 2 of the 15 or so SwitchLinc V2 600W switches that I have. If I dim either any amount, I get flicker seemingly randomly, where the light flickers between the dim level and 100% quickly 5-6 times. Almost seems that it happens when certain Insteon traffic passes through the switch, but I can't send an exact command that makes it happen everytime. But when I had a ControlLinc in the mix anytime the little white LED at the top would blink the flicker would flicker in step.

I am getting the two switches replaced, putting other switches in the same location don't flicker and moving the flickering switches to other locations brings the flicker along with them.
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mike
Advanced Member

USA
1131 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2006 :  08:53:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit mike's Homepage  Send mike an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Our engineers are aware of this issue and are currently working on a resolution. Thank you for the feedback. If you would like please call our tech support and have them swap the units in question so that we can replicate this in our lab.

SmartLabsMike
INSTEON - Linking Everything to Everything Else.
http://www.insteon.net
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JrFoxMN
Starting Member

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  12:17:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've got a bit of a different flicker I'm hoping someone can give me some insight on...

I have a pair of outlets above my kitchen cabinets. The top outlet is a regular wall outlet and I have it plugged into an Insteon LampLinc V2 Dimmer 3-pin. I have above cabinet lighting (formed of x-mas lights) plugged into the LampLinc. The bottom outlet is wired up to a wall switch with a Lutron Maestro dimmer. The load on that circuit is Juno undercabinet lighting w/ a magnetic transformer.

What is happening is whenever I send an Insteon command on the line, my Juno undercabinet lights start flickering. It doesn't matter whether I control the LampLinc's on the same outlet, or some other LampLinc, they still flicker.

If I pull off the above-cabinet LampLincs (and replace them with older X-10 devices), the problem goes away. It seems it only happens if the LampLinc's are plugged in right next to the Juno lights.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks all...
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five337
Starting Member

8 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  12:51:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We just put 9 Keypads, 12 dimmers, 1 relay and 6 lamp modules in a new home. The commands work flawlessly, but the light flicker is very bad on every load that is controled by a keypad. The entire house "flutters" when there is data being sent. Will there be a firmware update or will I really have to remove every keypad to send them back to you?

quote:
Originally posted by mike

Our engineers are aware of this issue and are currently working on a resolution. Thank you for the feedback. If you would like please call our tech support and have them swap the units in question so that we can replicate this in our lab.

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RTQ
New Member

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  6:21:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit RTQ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't know that it's an issue primarily with keypads - I have no keypads in my setup. It does seem to only happen with commands that come from the ControLinc rather than the 2414U controller in my case - if that means any thing.

RTQ

Rick Quisenberry
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VTCarl
Starting Member

11 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2006 :  5:48:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yet another kind of flicker - I have an Icon switch controlling four 80w incandesants in the family room, but when they go on or off, remotely or by pressing the on/off/dim/bright functions, the halogen light in my kitchen flickers. If I hold the switch on to brighten, for example, the kitchen light will flash bright when I press the button, and again when I release it. Any ideas?
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matthunter
Average Member

140 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2006 :  11:09:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
VTCarl,
Are your kitchen lights on a insteon product or a regular dimmer? My dining room light is on a Lutron dimmer, and whenever I send an insteon command (from switchlinc, keypadlinc, or even the control linc) the dining room light flickers quite noticeably. Smarthome says it's not their problem. I guess I'll just have to switch it out for an insteon module.

Matt
220, 221 whatever it takes!
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RTQ
New Member

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2006 :  11:51:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit RTQ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Matthunter:

In my case, all components are Insteon. Also note that previously in this thread Mike mentioned that the engineers at Insteon are aware of a problem of some kind

Rick Quisenberry

Edited by - RTQ on 05/16/2006 11:59:00 AM
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Kib
Starting Member

9 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2006 :  8:23:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow... been away for a few weeks actually moving into the new house and thought my post had sunk to the bottom of the lake.

Guess not.

Nice to see (in a guess I'm not the only one having problems kind of way) the thread didn't die, but still no resolution.

Mike - what's the procedure for swapping out the funky units ????

Thanks in advance, and thanks for the confirmation that the problem doesn't exist between the chair and keyboard... if you know what I mean !!!!

BTW - As I mentioned before, the flicker is NOT subtle. I would say the pacing is as close to a strobe light as one could get with an incandecent.

Edited by - Kib on 05/17/2006 8:29:52 PM
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RTQ
New Member

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2006 :  9:57:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit RTQ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'd like to be sure that it's not a design problem rather than a defect in my components before I start replacing units.

Rick Quisenberry
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Stowaway
Average Member

USA
143 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2006 :  07:07:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stowaway

quote:
Originally posted by mike

quote:
Originally posted by Stowaway

I have a flicker problem too.
I wanted to use Insteon to control malibu outdoor lighting with LED bulbs but they flicker when turned on. I left them on for about 10 minutes and the flicker continued so I removed the 2456D3 and went back to my old intermatic timers.
This was a problem with my X10 plug-ins which I removed. No flicker with the same malibu system using incandescent bulbs but LEDs last longer at lower cost. The smarthome technician I discussed this with last year thought Insteon might solve the problem but no such luck.
Anyone with ideas please pass them on....


Stowaway,
Do you need to dim your outdoor LED lights? If not you should not use a 2456D3 but instead a 2456S3 the appliance module. I ran into this last weekend where an LED bulb did not want to cooperate with a lamp dimmer, I swapped it for an appliancelinc and everything worked as expected.

That's great news!
I have some 2856S3B on order, will they work?


Just wanted to leave a follow-up----
I have installed one of the Icon appliance modules (2856S3B) on my Malibu LED outside lights and it appears to be working without any flicker. I will watch it a few days and confirm back that my issue was resolved with Insteon!!! Thanks again Mike
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vositis
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2006 :  6:51:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you are using a compact florescent light on a circuit on controlling lights such as the Malibu lights, you may be able to resolve the flicker by placing a single incandescent light on the circuit to act as a ballast of sorts.

-VO
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Eddie
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  07:11:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I donít know if this is going to help or add further confusion but heres my two cents. We are in the early stages of automating our house (completely Insteon). Everything works just as promised. No flickers or other bad behavior when the house is normal.

However, when the power drops our backup generator kicks on. I see almost every problem you all have been discussing. Lights flicker when dimmed, cut in and out when ramping on, flicker of lights when unrelated switches are pressed and the Insteon network just stops working.

Fortunately the first time the house dropped to backup power, I had the generator electrician at the house. His best guess is itís either dirty power or the Insteon devices may be frequency sensitive. My feeling is dirty power, since everything work great when on normal power. Iím thinking that I need some form of line/power filter (suggestions appreciated) and hopefully that will solve my problem.
----
Eddie
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RTQ
New Member

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  12:47:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit RTQ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Very interestingÖ

One of the things that has started to happen with my lights (that also show this flickering problem) is that at around 10:30 pm every night, they suddenly ramp up to 100% (if they happen to be dimmed). I can't find any timed event in the controller that can account for it, and I wonder if it's some kind of power surge.

I'm in the process of trying Z-Wave components, and find them much more reliable, but not nearly as programmable.



Rick Quisenberry
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QuickCarl
Average Member

USA
100 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2006 :  07:40:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit QuickCarl's Homepage  Send QuickCarl an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Rick - I am surprised that someone could find another technology more reliable. Other than one switch that died, every switch in my house does exactly what it is supposed to do exactly when it is supposed to do it. Group commands are awesome, and instantly turn on every switch in the group.

I am very pleased with Insteon (except for the price increase on the Icon llne) and can't wait for the product line to be filled out.

I would say that there is a little bit that could be done to extend the command set, so that commnads could be sent to a 'group master' which would in turn send those out to a group. This would help reduce the amount of groups that have to be set up in the PLC to make different scenes. Other than that... this stuff is sweet.

-Carl

Carl Chapman - COO at Interview on Demand, LLC
Video Interviews | Career Video Expert >> Blog | Video Interview Service - FREE Trial | Hiring Technology Newsletter
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