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jeffa
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  1:16:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a couple of outdoor lighting projects that I'd like to get some suggestions for. I currently use some indoor Insteon switches, and have a hub. I would like to convert my existing outdoor flood lights to be Insteon compatible, and I would like to add some Insteon outlets to control new string lighting for the deck/patio. So for the two projects, I am looking for...

** Flood Lighting **
I have 4 existing exterior (motion sensing) flood lights that are not connected to a switch. I am planning to add a 5th flood light. I also have a standard, switched, porch light to which I would like to add motion control. I would like to gain better control of the lights, and have the following features...

- Lights able to operate in three "modes"
- Mode A - Light(s) On - Doesn't matter if there's motion, or time of day
- Mode B - The light(s) would come on with motion (in the evening only), and turn off after a set time period (this is what they do now)
- Mode C - Light(s) Off - Doesn't matter if there's motion, or time of day. This would be for times when we have string lights (see below) on.
- Motion detection is capable of turning on multiple lights (this would be nice, but not a necessity)

I imagine replacing the standard deck/porch light switch with a button panel. I would want each panel button when on to enable Mode A for a particular light, and when off, enable Mode B for the light. I assume in order to enable Mode C, I would need to use some other control mechanism/switch.

I am willing to consider all options (replacing the flood lights, adding control hardware, etc). Thoughts on the best way to approach this?


** String Lighting **
I have purchased string lighting to go over the deck/patio. I am going to have outlets installed outside to power the string lighting. I don't see where Smarthome has outdoor Inseteon outlets. Am I missing something? Has anyone used them in an outdoor environment (and how is that working)? Other alternatives that people would suggest?

Thanks in advance for your input.

stusviews
Moderator

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  2:30:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The Insteon Hub is not capable of conditionals (if this, then do that), so you'll need software or an ISY.

Any standard outlet, including Insteon, can be installed in an approved outdoor box. There's also an Insteon Outdoor Module that can be plugged into an existing outdoor outlet.

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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10432 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  3:20:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can accomplish part of that with a model 2245 Hub and the Stringify app/service. (Only the 2245 works with Stringify, the 2242 and 2243 hubs aren't compatible.) The combination would let you set a variable that could be used as a condition to determine whether time or motion should trigger a lighting scene (containing one or more lights). The catch with Stringify is, it doesn't yet allow you to use secondary keypad buttons to trigger flows. For that, you'd need to use the Stringify app on your phone or have a dedicated switch in the house to switch between each mode.

The ISY is a pricier control option, but it *would* allow you to use a keypad's primary and secondary buttons to switch between modes. It also does conditional logic internally, so the response is quicker and there's no dependence on the internet or Stringify service being online when you need them.

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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
3598 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  6:05:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a few insteon devices in unconditioned space, but protection from direct exposure to rain and snow. So far, so good.

Still, last I checked, "rated" temperauture range was a little limited, so I would tend to use the outdoor modules if possible.
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Geo
Advanced Member

Canada
741 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2017 :  09:47:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've had a number of devices working outside for many years without a problem. Our temperatures go from -30C (-22F) to 40C (104F) in shade. All my devices are protected against exposure to the elements - rain, snow, direct sun - by a small shield.

GJN
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alice_fu
Starting Member

12 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2017 :  8:43:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello! I was looking for help to your outdoor flood lights and I found an outdoor security light. The only problem is you may need to have a junction or power box already installed if you¡¯re replacing an existing light or you¡¯ll need to buy one and run power wires as well.Here is a link from YouTube FYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22cjhSx5ttA.
Hope this will help you.
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jeffa
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2017 :  07:33:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the comments/suggestions.

For the floodlight project, what equipment will I need? I don't see motion controlled floodlights on the Smarthome site...other than something that is out of stock if I search on the Googles. Has this product been discontinued?

I think I can do what I want if I can convert the floodlights to be Insteon controlled, and add motion sensors, but need some guidance.

How do I turn an unstitched floodlight into an Insteon controlled light?

If I get motion sensors and an ISY controller, will I be able to accomplish the three "Modes" I'm looking for?

Thanks.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2017 :  1:31:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jeffa

Thanks for the comments/suggestions.

For the floodlight project, what equipment will I need? I don't see motion controlled floodlights on the Smarthome site...other than something that is out of stock if I search on the Googles. Has this product been discontinued?

I think I can do what I want if I can convert the floodlights to be Insteon controlled, and add motion sensors, but need some guidance.

How do I turn an unstitched floodlight into an Insteon controlled light?

If I get motion sensors and an ISY controller, will I be able to accomplish the three "Modes" I'm looking for?

Thanks.


Virtually any floodlight with a motion sensor can be converted to Insteon using a Micro On/Off module (not the Heath Dual-Brite)

Disconnect the motion sensor from the light, connect the motion sensor to the Micro Module sense #1 wire (yellow), connect the Micro Module to the light. An ISY can accomplish what you want.

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Roscooo
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2017 :  08:46:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you could try solar lights...
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jeffa
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2017 :  12:59:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, so I bought some micro modules. I went with he dimmer version (2442-222), because they came in a (less expensive) four pack. I also purchased an ISY 994i, but I haven't unboxed it yet.

I've connected one of the modules to a flood light...which I discovered has the "dual-bright" capability, but it has an "off" switch for the dual-bright, so I think I'm OK. I already have an Insteon hub, so I connected to the micro module, so I could see what it is doing. With the micro-module in Latching mode, and three-way disabled, the light seems to act exactly as it did before, but now I have the ability to manually turn it on and off.

A few questions...

- Did I make a mistake going with the dimmer version of the micro module? In other words, am I going to have any issues using the dimmers instead of on/off modules for my flood light scenario?

- What do I need to do now to get my ISY configured so that I can have my desired "modes"?

- I am now the proud owner of three HA controllers (Insteon Pro (w/ homekit), Insteon Hub II (w/ Alexa support), and the ISY994i(ZW)). From what I've gleaned from other posts, using multiple hubs is not necessarily a good idea.
- Am I now the owner of two expensive paper weights?
- Can I use the Pro to add home kit capability?
- If I start using the ISY, is there any reason to use the Hub II?

Thanks!
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2017 :  2:52:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The ISY does not get along with ANY other Insteon manager including the Hubs (unless you are very, very familiar with the Insteon protocol).

If the lighting works correctly and the bulbs are dimmable, then there should not be a problem using dimmers. Caution: if the bulbs are not dimmable, then, in the long run, the life of both the bulbs and dimmers will be considerably shortened. That's because a dimmer clips the waveform even at full on.

Mode A: Create an ISY scene with the all the Micro Modules as responders. Turn the scene on or off to control the lights.

Mode B: Connect the existing motion sensor to the sense wire on a Micro Module.

Mode C: more complex. Let's get everything else working first.

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jeffa
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2017 :  7:10:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So, I have A and B set up as stusviews suggested (only using one light for the time being). However, I want to clarify that for Mode A, if I turn it on, I want it to stay on. As it is now, if I turn on the light via the ISY scene, and then there is motion, the light turns off after the motion timer completes. I guess, my overall hope is to be able to override the motion sensing during Mode A and Mode B.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2017 :  12:41:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Set the MS to send an ON only. Use a program to control off.

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jeffa
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2017 :  10:33:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
stusviews, can you expand on that a bit?

How do I set the Motion Sensor to send an ON only? As I understand it, the MS sends full voltage to the sense input (yellow wire), which the micro module interprets that as "on" (in Latching mode w/o 3 way), then after its timer, stops sending voltage, which the micro module interprets as "off". Do I need to use one of the other switch types?

How would you recommend setting up a program to control the "off" for Mode C? If there's a way to do this, I assume I could do something similar for the "on" of Mode A.

Thanks for your help!

Edited by - jeffa on 06/12/2017 10:33:41 AM
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
3598 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2017 :  11:13:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeffa, I understand the ability to send ON only commands is related to the insteon motion sensor. If this is not what you have, then such advise may not apply.

I am a little unclear on your setup....do you have on micromodule connected to a floodlight and a second micromodule connected to the motion sensor? Or everything connected to same micremodule?
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jeffa
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2017 :  11:35:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
oberkc,

I only have one micro module in the flood light...

House Line <> Micro module Line AND Motion Sensor Line
Motion Sensor Load <> Micro Module Sense (Yellow)
Micro Module Load <> Light Bulbs
Neutral <> Neutral
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2017 :  11:43:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
jeffa, oberkc is correct. Your existing MS does not have that setting. You'll need a second Micro Module with nothing connected to the sense wire to accomplish what you want. BTW, I have a similar set-up using a MS and a SwitchLinc.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
3598 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2017 :  1:48:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This goes beyond anything i have done with micromodules, so it is all theoretical. In theory, I believe connecting your motion sensor to one micromodule (sense) and another iolinc connected to the light, from the micrmodule load wire. I believe separating the sense from the load of a single micromodule may be difficult (or worse).

If you are replacing a switch with an insteon keypad, you could use buttons a, b, and c to enable each mode.

For mode A, turn on the micromodule for the loght. Use a program such as:

If
Status butto A is on
Then
Turn on porch light
Else
Turn off porch light

For mode B, I would use a program such as

If
Status button b is on
And Control motion micromodule is on
And time of day is evening
Then
Turn light micromodule on
Wait set time period
Run this program (else path)
Else
Turn light micromodule off

Form mode c, a program:

If
Status button c is on
Then
Turn off light

Beyond the programs, you would need to create a scene with buttons a, b, and c, all as controllers, with the responder levels set to zero. This wiuld cause buttons b and c to turn off when button a is pressed, buttons a and c off when b is preseed, etc...

If you decide to follow this advice, and want further details, let us know. If you are unfamiliar with the ISY at this point, you will want to read the user manual and wiki. It takes a little time to get familiar with how it works.

In answer to an earlier question, yes, you own some pricey paper weights. I believe the ISY is the nly controller in your possession that will meet your needs and the others serve no purpose here.

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