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silverton38
Senior Member

Canada
377 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  09:20:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
----HOPEFULLY THIS REACHES THE DEVELOPMENT ARM OF INSTEON.

Here is what the next HUB will need in the future to compete with other systems.

You will need a method of replacement.
I would suggest a cloning feature for the new hub not unlike NAT cloning on a router. You could simply clone the Insteon address of the original hub and then download all of the configuration from the web server. The original devices would never even know that new hub exists. This would give installers a consideration on using it and it would allow an easy upgrade to the newest version and sell more hubs.

You need to rebuild a device
Sometimes an insteon device loses its code and needs to be reset and rebuilt. You need to add this feature.

You need to reset a device as you install it.
When a new devices is added you should sent a factory reset code to the device. Then add it.

You need to allow an email change on the account.
This is important as people will naturally sell homes. They need to transfer to the new owner.

Increase the radio strength.
It is really important for the hub to communicate with all devices in the home. You should make the radio as strong as it can be legally.

Allow Keypadlinc to use the OFF only feature that it has.
ISY can program it to be off when pressed so the feature totally exists. This is important because the number one feature for a smart home is an ALL OFF button.

Add Google Home support
This is not much different then Amazon Echo so I do not think it would be much of an issue to add.

Create a voice control flag.
Not all scenes and devices need to be controlled by voice for Amazon echo and/or Google Home.

Add security features
This is becoming popular in other systems. You should release a security keypad and add a security feature that works over the internet. This could even be a new revenue source for the company.

Fix your web browser support (end the multi year beta)
I do not know why this is even an issue. It would take a programmer a couple of hours to fix it. Professionals would prefer this method.

Change the color to Black.
The white hub yellows over time and looks old. Black would not do that and look much better over time. I would also add a vent for additional cooling; it never hurts.


If you were to finish this product as per above you would be able to compete with the best of them.





Edited by - silverton38 on 08/22/2017 09:24:31 AM

silverton38
Senior Member

Canada
377 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  09:23:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If there is any other input it is more then welcome.

Edited by - silverton38 on 08/22/2017 10:27:47 AM
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  12:34:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is a user-to-user forum, As such, the manufacturer doesn't necessarily read most posts.

If you want to be heard, contact them. There are several contacts on their retail web site or do a search and chose

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Edited by - stusviews on 08/22/2017 12:34:45 PM
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
3586 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  1:32:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Without some form of conditional logic, I will never be interested. The hub, in my estimation, is little more than a part of an expensive remote control system. My interests lie more in the automation side.

Regarding the ALL OFF feature, can you not do that manually via the keypadlinc? I thought I saw that in the instructions.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  3:45:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Having both has its advantages. the Hub has settings for some device options that are not available from the ISY.

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TinCan782
Starting Member

12 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  6:51:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ability to access the Hub directly (via hard-wired Ethernet connection).
My Hub is hard-wired to my router. My desktop is hard-wired to the same router.
Why do I have to go through the internet/cloud to access it (especially when I have no internet access)?

John
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  7:53:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The Hub is meant to be a cloud device. If you need access without an internet connection, then the Hub is not for you.

Other choices require a computer. There's software for PCs and for Macs that require that your computer be on 24/7 and devices that are OS independent, but require a computer only to set up and/or make changes.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
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silverton38
Senior Member

Canada
377 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  10:01:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Regarding the ALL OFF feature, can you not do that manually via the keypadlinc? I thought I saw that in the instructions.
[/quote]

Believe it or not you can not manually put the new version of the switch in to that mode. They took out the manual feature as well. I do not understand why?
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silverton38
Senior Member

Canada
377 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  10:08:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I always believe the the ISY will be there for very serious installations. I am only referring to basic and/or simple installations. Samsung Smarthings is very much ahead of the game in regards to Cloud based hubs. This is the competition that I am talking about and if Insteon does not make changes Smartthngs will become bigger and bigger and the Insteon protocol will be at risk.

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silverton38
Senior Member

Canada
377 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  12:15:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

This is a user-to-user forum, As such, the manufacturer doesn't necessarily read most posts.

If you want to be heard, contact them. There are several contacts on their retail web site or do a search and chose



Does anyone know what address I can mail my recommendations to? You can send me a private message.
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lilyoyo1
Average Member

150 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  5:08:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As an installer, personally, i'd rather they didn't allow porting as i've seen enough issues when a person moves from system to system. Yes it would be easier to some degree, but when name and reputation is on the line, i'd rather avoid anything that could potentially cause problems whether its during the install or down the road.

Factory resetting a device sounds good but once again can cause more issues than it helps. Unfortunately they have to think about their consumer base on a whole not the small amount that my be technical not to cause harm.

Increasing radio strength isn't the only answer nor would it help in many cases. While it sounds good on paper, it can cause additional problems in regards to interference with other devices. Not only that, many times, its the environment rather than RF strength itself. I've seen houses with a multitude of enterprise grade access points throughout a small area. Not because they aren't powerful but the environment itself wasn't conducive to wireless signals. While a stronger signal can help, having the right devices properly located to form a strong mesh system helps greatly.

Smartthings and Insteon are in 2 separate places. Insteon is a tiny company vs a billion dollar company. If they tried to keep up with them they would go broke. Samsung can afford to spend more to make a better and more capable product. If needed, they could also sell it at a lower price point to ensure market share.

The Insteon beta page was for the 2242-222 hub. They havent worked on that since the 2245 replaced it which is why its still in beta. Its only there for those who still use it (just like the smartlinc app).

The rest of your list I think is great. Personally I feel the price point determines the features. If they try to stick with that 80 dollar price point, my expectations remain low simply because I believe you get what you pay for. If they are willing to go to a few hundred dollars then my expectations drastically increase.

I'm with OberKc in that I want a full automation controller not a remote control app. I would want a device that is fully independent of the cloud. While i would personally need the device to be as in depth as the ISY994, I recognize that not everyone wants to spend the time needed for that type of controller. At a minimum, I would want to see a controller that combined houselinc and hub into one unit. You get a little bit of logic for advanced timers while maintaining ease of use that the hub offers.
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TinCan782
Starting Member

12 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  7:55:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

The Hub is meant to be a cloud device. If you need access without an internet connection, then the Hub is not for you.

Other choices require a computer. There's software for PCs and for Macs that require that your computer be on 24/7 and devices that are OS independent, but require a computer only to set up and/or make changes.



I don't have a problem with it being a cloud device for normal operation. Just seems like the "long way around" going from my phone/computer through a router and cable modem to the "cloud" and back through the SAME modem and the SAME router to the phone/computer!

From time to time internet service "goes away". Sometimes the HUB goes "red" and beeps (makes that buzzing sound) even though I have internet service internet service.


John

Edited by - TinCan782 on 08/23/2017 8:01:47 PM
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silverton38
Senior Member

Canada
377 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2017 :  08:04:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lilyoyo1

As an installer, personally, i'd rather they didn't allow porting as i've seen enough issues when a person moves from system to system. Yes it would be easier to some degree, but when name and reputation is on the line, i'd rather avoid anything that could potentially cause problems whether its during the install or down the road.

Factory resetting a device sounds good but once again can cause more issues than it helps. Unfortunately they have to think about their consumer base on a whole not the small amount that my be technical not to cause harm.

Increasing radio strength isn't the only answer nor would it help in many cases. While it sounds good on paper, it can cause additional problems in regards to interference with other devices. Not only that, many times, its the environment rather than RF strength itself. I've seen houses with a multitude of enterprise grade access points throughout a small area. Not because they aren't powerful but the environment itself wasn't conducive to wireless signals. While a stronger signal can help, having the right devices properly located to form a strong mesh system helps greatly.

Smartthings and Insteon are in 2 separate places. Insteon is a tiny company vs a billion dollar company. If they tried to keep up with them they would go broke. Samsung can afford to spend more to make a better and more capable product. If needed, they could also sell it at a lower price point to ensure market share.

The Insteon beta page was for the 2242-222 hub. They havent worked on that since the 2245 replaced it which is why its still in beta. Its only there for those who still use it (just like the smartlinc app).

The rest of your list I think is great. Personally I feel the price point determines the features. If they try to stick with that 80 dollar price point, my expectations remain low simply because I believe you get what you pay for. If they are willing to go to a few hundred dollars then my expectations drastically increase.

I'm with OberKc in that I want a full automation controller not a remote control app. I would want a device that is fully independent of the cloud. While i would personally need the device to be as in depth as the ISY994, I recognize that not everyone wants to spend the time needed for that type of controller. At a minimum, I would want to see a controller that combined houselinc and hub into one unit. You get a little bit of logic for advanced timers while maintaining ease of use that the hub offers.



Please keep in mind that Smartthings was just recently bought by Samsung and was a smaller company the Smarthome before that. These change would not affect hardware but simply development (programming). Many times a small company can do much better then a large one.

They can make a working web page quite easily and they should do that. There is no good excuse for it.



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BLH
Advanced Member

5600 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2017 :  09:51:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hopefully Richmond Capital Partners. Who bought Smartlabs and Smarthome. Will change things for the better.
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richaree
Junior Member

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2017 :  2:26:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BLH

Hopefully Richmond Capital Partners. Who bought Smartlabs and Smarthome. Will change things for the better.




I agree. They have some good people. Just need to have someone that leads and allows them to focus on what they set out to achieve
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lilyoyo1
Average Member

150 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2017 :  2:59:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually smartthings was purchased 3 years ago. I have the original smartthings hub and it had more promises than results. It was extremely buggy and unreliable. Since then, it has improved tremendously though it's still no where near the hype it receives.

That's not to minimize what Insteon needs to do. The fact is the next hub had to keep up with the times.However comparing a billion dollar company focused on software vs a million dollar company focused on hardware isn't a fair comparison. Lowe's Iris or Staples connect would be a better comparison.

In regards to the webpage, there is no work being done on it at all. It was for a system that is now discontinued so they left it as it was
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silverton38
Senior Member

Canada
377 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2017 :  12:31:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lilyoyo1

Actually smartthings was purchased 3 years ago. I have the original smartthings hub and it had more promises than results. It was extremely buggy and unreliable. Since then, it has improved tremendously though it's still no where near the hype it receives.

That's not to minimize what Insteon needs to do. The fact is the next hub had to keep up with the times.However comparing a billion dollar company focused on software vs a million dollar company focused on hardware isn't a fair comparison. Lowe's Iris or Staples connect would be a better comparison.

In regards to the webpage, there is no work being done on it at all. It was for a system that is now discontinued so they left it as it was



The things on my proposal would not break the bank in anyway. They need to complete no matter what their value is.
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silverton38
Senior Member

Canada
377 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2017 :  12:32:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BLH

Hopefully Richmond Capital Partners. Who bought Smartlabs and Smarthome. Will change things for the better.




I hope they take their investment seriously.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2017 :  11:26:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by silverton38
The things on my proposal would not break the bank in anyway. They need to complete no matter what their value is.


Each item alone won't break the bank at all. Taken together, hey'll simply increase the cost of the Hub, making it no longer a low cost entry device.

OTOH, I do see a need for an additional device that's more capable than the Hub, but not instead of it.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
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silverton38
Senior Member

Canada
377 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2017 :  7:58:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

quote:
Originally posted by silverton38
The things on my proposal would not break the bank in anyway. They need to complete no matter what their value is.


Each item alone won't break the bank at all. Taken together, hey'll simply increase the cost of the Hub, making it no longer a low cost entry device.

OTOH, I do see a need for an additional device that's more capable than the Hub, but not instead of it.



My ideas are only basic programming. it should not increase the hardware costs.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2017 :  10:01:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Adding programming capability adds significantly to the production cost. Have you ever created a compiler from scratch using just memory modules and coding?

BTW, I have. Really, really fun. The time spent was gratis, then memory needed was not.

That's in addition to the hardware that the hub already needs. And then there's the physical space needed and the design of the circuit board. Definitely not a simple task

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
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lilyoyo1
Average Member

150 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2017 :  05:33:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Stusviews. The more programming something needs the more they need to charge. Programmers don't work for free
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silverton38
Senior Member

Canada
377 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2017 :  12:17:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Programming is something that can easily be done. I think you are looking at about 50 - 100 hours of programming. It is only the desire to get it done.
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lilyoyo1
Average Member

150 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2017 :  2:10:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Time is money. The more time you spend the more money you pay out. Hence the reason some controllers are 80 bucks and others a few hundred
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jtmoderate876
Junior Member

31 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2017 :  08:44:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Insteon/SMarthome should just create a USB PLM driver for Noe_RED.

That environment is already more intuitive and more powerful than anything that anyone will dream up for the foreseeable future.

Then nearly anyone can program anything they would like by connecting a USB PLM to a Raspberry PI with Node_RED, finally joining the excellent Insteon hardware with automation capability it has long lacked (aside from ISY, which has some power but is very tired, no where near as user friendly, still tied to a SERIAL PLM, with hardware that gets End Of Life every 5 or so years requiring another $250).

On Node-RED we can search for "how to's" across Node-RED's much broader user base, share ideas, be future proofed for quite some time.

You can also run node-RED on a PC, Linux, other single-board computers, etc.

Node-RED has broad and growing community of support and would allow Insteon to focus on new, great, feature-rich insteon devices.

Smarthome/Insteon: Write the node-RED driver nodes and leave the automation software to those already excelling at it - Node-RED.

Edited by - jtmoderate876 on 09/09/2017 08:51:49 AM
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Msradell
Junior Member

37 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2017 :  1:16:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Node-RED is too complicated for the majority of users. What's needed is the simplicity of the present hub with additional capabilities. The ISY994 is already a controller with many advanced features but like I'm talking about it's quite complicated and not something that many normal users can program efficiently. The existing hub is very easy to use for everyone but lacks capabilities. Just a few minor additions such as multiple on-and-off times during the day for each device, availability of offsets +/- from sunset/Sunrise times as well as the availability of minor logical functionality such as if/then when make the hub much more flexible and powerful without significant changes.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
15603 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2017 :  1:55:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Msradell,

I fully agree that, for most, simplicity rules. But, adding the requested features is not trivial and would definitely increase the cost of creating and, ultimately, the retail price.

So. I'll repeat, the Hub does not need a replacement. What's needed is an additional device, something more powerful than the Hub, but not a difficult as the ISY.

BTW, I use both the Hub and an ISY

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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10407 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2017 :  2:40:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Remember, the 2245 Hub already works with Stringify for more extensive timers, schedules, location, conditional event features, and connections to other web services and IOT devices not natively supported by the current Hub app. That free service is available today and allows relatively simple connections similar to what IBM's Red service offers.

Volunteer Moderator & Home Automation Enthusiast
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jtmoderate876
Junior Member

31 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2017 :  12:30:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I too agree that simplicity rules for most - and that's the 2245 audience.

Try configuring Stringify to "turn off all upstairs lights 30 minutes after the last upstairs light activity". It is an understandable example of something someone would very much want to do and couldn't be done when I last tried Stringify. Stringify is nice too, but I need more.

I'm someone that needs more functionality and more integration options than 2245-222 (I'll leave it plugged in for Alexa, maybe stringify, minor stuff but I need more).

My experience through friends with isy is that:
- the PLM goes bad - say every 2-4 years
- new device support can be slow and every 5 years require you to throw out and rebuy a new $250+ isy
- that is already enough for me but other factors include
- the software is just not for me - I don't want to be mean so I'll just say not for me.
- it uses a dated serial connection
- limited integration (better than straight insteon - but not the future)
My isy friends no longer use isy or insteon - they dumped the whole lot.

I'm someone that needs more functionality, including integration, which I now expect to include:
- ability to integrate and incorporate to other things via webservices and MQTT such as...
- Ecobee thermostat integration (Node-RED - no problem, same for NEST)
- Zigbee power meter
- geolocation, geofencing and more phone integration
- locks
- the ability for me to record, display the data in other applications using MQTT, webservices, etc. (Node-RED - no problem)
- the possibility of integration to wink, Chamberlain, smartthings, zwave, Sigfox, or whatever lies ahead


2000's: HouseLinc 1, 2, then dead
<2012- 2242-222 Hub (1)
2014 - 2245-222 Hub Central Controller (aka 2014 HUB)
2015 - 2243-222 : Hub for Homekit

Improvements have come to the 2014 (2245-222) HUB such as:
- Alexa - this was pretty nice
- Stringify - also nice but I believe the heavy lifting done by Stringify
- speed improvements - nice but many things should be better (like those things mentioned earlier in this thread by others, conditional logic, backup/restore, export/import, ).

I just don't think Insteon wants to chase the higher functionality as demonstrated by the fact that the last Insteon product that did decent control was HouseLink from the 2000's sometime and has been dead since 2007 or so.

Furthermore, Insteon just can't provide, finance, license and keep up with integration options.

Today's HUB 2245-222 is fine as is for the simple, mainstream Insteon users - with small, regular improvements (like speed) or feature (like Alexa, stringify ) every so often.

For the rest of us create USB PLM driver support for Node-RED and teach yourself and your kids something with applicability beyond the light switch.
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lilyoyo1
Average Member

150 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2017 :  10:27:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Insteon, UDI, and others are in the business to make money first and foremost. This means they will go to where the money is at and it is with regular users. UDI has the advanced space locked down pretty tight and while not perfect can actually perform many things that more costly systems can't if someone knows how to harness it's capabilities.

I have seen and personally use the ISY in ways that you rarely see controllers worth 10x it's cost used. Coupled with my RTI system, I've accomplished more with my system and 1/4 of the cost of doing the same with crestron, savant, radio Ra, and contr 4.

PLM issues have nothing to do with ISY. As with any electronic item anything can go bad. No different than a friend's crestron controller going bad after 5 years (and at a much greater replacement cost I might add). The same with a new ISY. What company doesn't release new equipment? Hell, there are people who but a new 800 dollar phone every year and you're complaining about a new 300 dollar controller that you need not buy every 5! The fact is, unless your setup changes, you don't need to swap. Besides, UDI has always had a great upgrade program which generally cuts the costs significantly. With technological advances, if they didn't release a new controller, they wouldn't be around now. No computing tech lasts a lifetime. If anything, you can make the argument they should release an update sooner.

Device support. Of course anyone would love the newest device be supported immediately. This needs to improve. However this is more on insteon than UDI since unsupported devices are usually not supported by anyone.

There are ways to integrate 3rd party thermostats that the ISY natively doesn't support. These require the same amount of work that node red requires to set up so there's no benefit there. Zigbee is a different story but even then, there are still other alternatives for customers. In any case node-red wouldn't be for most people so they still would be stuck with an incompatible item.

You stated the ISY wasn't the platform for you so there is no argument there. The ISY isn't for you. It's for those who want automation without spending time learning a language just to program their house. IMO, the ISY is like an instrument is to a musician. It's the talent of the musician not the instrument they are playing. Mozart can make anything sound good while a weak pianist needs better equipment.

Most things that you state is required for you the ISY can do. What it doesn't do, there are workarounds for. For me, my personal feeling is that they ISY should not be seen nor interacted with. Apps should be secondary to its use not primary. I can't remember how many installs I've done but one thing I can say is that by the time I give app control to them, not a single customer felt the need to use it outside of showing off to friends (While I have RTI in my home, I couldn't tell you the last time I used the app).

Node-red isn't for the avg user not above avg. Users. Even if UDI, Insteon, or someone created a full software suite based off it and packaged it as a controller, someone would take issue with it or find a problem with it. The wonderful thing about the ISY is that the 5.0 branch uses polyglot allowing for developers to write their own scripts using node servers for control of additional devices that it does not support should one choose to.


Edited by - lilyoyo1 on 09/15/2017 04:52:53 AM
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2315 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2017 :  7:59:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jtmoderate876

I too agree that simplicity rules for most - and that's the 2245 audience.

Try configuring Stringify to "turn off all upstairs lights 30 minutes after the last upstairs light activity". It is an understandable example of something someone would very much want to do and couldn't be done when I last tried Stringify. Stringify is nice too, but I need more.

I'm someone that needs more functionality and more integration options than 2245-222 (I'll leave it plugged in for Alexa, maybe stringify, minor stuff but I need more).

My experience through friends with isy is that:
- the PLM goes bad - say every 2-4 years
- new device support can be slow and every 5 years require you to throw out and rebuy a new $250+ isy
- that is already enough for me but other factors include
- the software is just not for me - I don't want to be mean so I'll just say not for me.
- it uses a dated serial connection
- limited integration (better than straight insteon - but not the future)
My isy friends no longer use isy or insteon - they dumped the whole lot.

I'm someone that needs more functionality, including integration, which I now expect to include:
- ability to integrate and incorporate to other things via webservices and MQTT such as...
- Ecobee thermostat integration (Node-RED - no problem, same for NEST)
- Zigbee power meter
- geolocation, geofencing and more phone integration
- locks
- the ability for me to record, display the data in other applications using MQTT, webservices, etc. (Node-RED - no problem)
- the possibility of integration to wink, Chamberlain, smartthings, zwave, Sigfox, or whatever lies ahead


2000's: HouseLinc 1, 2, then dead
<2012- 2242-222 Hub (1)
2014 - 2245-222 Hub Central Controller (aka 2014 HUB)
2015 - 2243-222 : Hub for Homekit

Improvements have come to the 2014 (2245-222) HUB such as:
- Alexa - this was pretty nice
- Stringify - also nice but I believe the heavy lifting done by Stringify
- speed improvements - nice but many things should be better (like those things mentioned earlier in this thread by others, conditional logic, backup/restore, export/import, ).

I just don't think Insteon wants to chase the higher functionality as demonstrated by the fact that the last Insteon product that did decent control was HouseLink from the 2000's sometime and has been dead since 2007 or so.

Furthermore, Insteon just can't provide, finance, license and keep up with integration options.

Today's HUB 2245-222 is fine as is for the simple, mainstream Insteon users - with small, regular improvements (like speed) or feature (like Alexa, stringify ) every so often.

For the rest of us create USB PLM driver support for Node-RED and teach yourself and your kids something with applicability beyond the light switch.



To ensure others reading your reply don't get the wrong information here are some facts. The ISY Series Controller natively supports X-10 & Insteon. If a person requires more flexibility they can update the controller at anytime to include either Z-Wave / ZigBee.

If a person updates the controller to have Z-Wave they literally can integrate and use all three protocols and have a hybrid environment.

If a person is interested in Energy Monitoring / Energy Management the controller can be updated to support either third party energy monitors like Brultech's Green Eye Monitor (GEM) or the ECM-1240. UDI also offers their very own energy monitor and for those who have utilities that allow the end user to connect to the ZiGBee smart meter the ISY Series Controller can interface what that oo.

If a person updates the ISY Series Controller with the stand alone *Network Module* or via the ISY Portal. They can connect to many countless network devices or cloud hosted services.

The ISY Series Controller supports the Insteon Morning Industry lock set. Having the Z-Wave upgrade allows a person to purchase any Z-Wave smart lock.

The ISY Series Controller supports via ISY Portal / Network Module Sonos, IFTTT, Stringify, Amazon Echo, Google Home, and countless other products and services. It really comes down to a persons investment of finances and time.

The ISY Series Controller only uses *Serial* connection to communicate to the 2413S PLM. Keeping in mind even though Serial connection appears to be very old and outdated is still in use today all around the world and isn't going away anytime soon.

The ISY Series Controller via its ISY Portal supports geo location via Locative. Those who invest in any of the smart applications like Mobilinc / Agave also have geo location support. For those willing to make a modest investment and time can purchase any number of iBeacons which enables geo / hyper location presence detection.

The ISY Series Controller also tightly integrates with the ELK Security system expanding on this HA orientated security alarm system. The controller also supports weather and irrigation and in the near future via 5.XX firmware will allow node server support for any number of possible services / appliances to be connected and represented in the system.

The ISY Series Controller already supports Nest, MyQ, MQTT, via the Network Module and 5.XX Node Servers.

Not sure where you heard a ISY Series Controller would need to be thrown out after X years? The very limited failures of this controller have almost always been due to third party failures from power supply to Micro SD card. The controller has rarely if ever been found to be defective or broken down.

Hope this information clears the air as to what the ISY Series Controller is and what it can offer with the right mix of investment of finances and resources. Some want a point and shoot like the Insteon Hub and that's fine. As it meets a target audience and price point to get peoples feet wet. Once they learn what Home Automation can offer them in terms of accessibility, convenience, and safety.

The most logical and expected path is to the ISY Series Controller. Coupled with one of the best service after the sale support of any company bar none.


Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro
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