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jewels
Starting Member

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2018 :  07:54:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I recently bought several switches to install throughout my home. Last night I encounter two different issues.

First issue:

I wanted to install an on/off switches to control the outside lights. There are two lights above the garage doors controlled by one switch, another light outside the front door, controlled by another switch and the entryway light inside the house controlled by the third switch in the box.

Last night I tried replacing just one of the switches, which was connected by a red wire and two black wires. There is a bundled of 6 neutrals in the box, but there wasnít room to add another into the bundle.

My question, since there is only one switch controlling these lights, why is there a red wire? What are each of the wires doing and what is the correct configuration? I guess I will need to get a different wire cap to be able to bundle at least 9 neutrals together instead of six?

2nd Issue:

I was trying to replace two switches in a simple three-way configuration for a single hallway light. The first box has two black wires, a red wire, and a bundle of neutral white wires. The second box only has one black, one red, and one white wire. I was able to get the first switch to work on the first box, but not the second switch. I removed the insteon switch from the 2nd box b/c it wasnít working and the setup works except the original 2nd switch needs to always be in the on position for the insteon switch on the other box to control the light.

Is this wiring configuration compatible with the on/off switch? If so, what is the correct wiring configuration?

Any help is appreciated.

Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10562 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2018 :  09:23:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
INSTEON tech support doesnít ordinarily participate in these user-to-user forums. See http://Insteon.com/support if you want their official free email and phone support.

For what itís worth, the first situation sounds like a multi-way switch. I expect thereís one or more additional control locations wired inside the house, likely near the front door and/or patio doors. Youíll need to either bypass each additional control point or replace them with another Insteon control.

No worries, thereís always a way to convert a 3-way setup to Insteon. Usually you just have to change wiring connections in the fixture box so the secondary switch wires connect to hot and neutral instead of hot and switched hot. Depending on the wiring in the fixture and the primary switch, sometimes it is also necessary to add a micro module behind the fixture.

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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
3678 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2018 :  7:29:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Tfitzpatri8...first switch sounds as if it is also a three-way. Is one of the screws on the switch black?

Regarding the second box in your second issue, none of those conductors are unswitched hot, nor are any neutrals. Wiring for three-ways comes in several varieties, based primarily on where unswitched hot enters the circuit...at the fixture, or at one of the boxes. Another factor includes routing of travelers (sometimes these can also go through fixture box.) I suspect it will be difficult to advise you without a more detailed description of the first box conductors. Of the three wires connected to the switch, from where do they come? Describe each of those three wires, the cables of which they are a part, and any other conductors a part of those cables.

Finally, do not assume white is a neutral.
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jewels
Starting Member

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2018 :  10:24:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the help. I went searching and found the 2nd location in the 3-way switch for the driveway lights. I still have the problem that I donít have room for the neutral so Iím waiting to receive some extra push-in wire connectors and I think I can just daisy chain them to add more neutral ports.

I also was able to fix the hallway three-way switch. I did some research and finally understand the wiring and was able to connect both switches properly.

I still have another switch Iím having trouble with because it only has two wires... a black and a white. I want to put a dimmer switch there,but I think I need to have an electrician run a new wire since the 2477D is not compatible with a 2-wire setup.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10562 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2018 :  11:31:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can use a 2477 and avoid installing new wiring by installing a micro module in the fixture box, repurposing the two conductors to carry line and neutral, capping the load wire on the switch, and electronically linking the two modules.

Insteon also offers a two-wire switch, but it requires using an incandescent load.

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jewels
Starting Member

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2018 :  8:20:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, i came to the same conclusion myself after doing some more research. It is good to hear it confirmed. I will order the in line module and try that out! Thanks again!
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jewels
Starting Member

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2018 :  11:54:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think I misunderstood what you were suggesting... I thought what I needed was in In-Line Dimmer Switch (2475DA1), but I think what you are saying is that I need is Insteon Remote Control Micro Dimmer Switch Adapter (2442-222)? This item seems to have lots of poor reviews.. which of these items (if either) will work on a chandelier light fixture and be able to dim 5 LED bulbs?

The In-Line Dimmer Switch was what I thought I needed, but now I'm not so sure... it says it works with incandescent only...?

quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

You can use a 2477 and avoid installing new wiring by installing a micro module in the fixture box, repurposing the two conductors to carry line and neutral, capping the load wire on the switch, and electronically linking the two modules.

Insteon also offers a two-wire switch, but it requires using an incandescent load.


Edited by - jewels on 04/15/2018 12:01:49 PM
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
3678 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2018 :  5:07:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To avoid adding new wire, you would use both: dimmer switch (normal, not two-wire) AND micro module. You would use the micro module to power the fixture directly, repurpose the two wires going to the switch box to become unswitched hot and neutral, and install the insteon switch at the switch box location. Link the switch and micro module (controller/responder) so that the switch commands the module to turn on/off.

I don't know about the reviews about the micro module. Mine seem to work, but it appears others have experienced early failures. Only you can decide if you are willing to take the risk.
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jewels
Starting Member

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2018 :  10:15:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What about the in-line dimme switch? Why wonít that work?
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
3678 Posts

Posted - 04/16/2018 :  03:35:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The inlinelinc 2475DA1 should work in place of the micro module if you have room in the box. As you noted, it is "rated" for incandescent only, but you might be willing to try with other loads. I can tell you that I have had some success with using such insteon devices with success and that one of my inlinelincs is currently powering LED fixtures. The only insteon device I would not use with LED/CFL would be the two-wire dimmer.

Edited by - oberkc on 04/16/2018 03:43:36 AM
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BLH
Advanced Member

5705 Posts

Posted - 04/16/2018 :  05:59:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Each manufacturer of dimmable LED bulbs and dimmer manufacturers. Have different electrical designs.
Some combinations of LED bulbs and dimmers will work fine. Other combinations may not work 100%.
Some LED and Dimmer Switches manufacturers have a list of compatible combinations on their web sites.

By saying Incandescent loads. They have less chance of customers complaining if they are using dimmable LED bulbs and not getting expected results.

Verify that your fixture {if it has its own driver electronics} or LED bulbs are specified to be used on a dimmer.
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jewels
Starting Member

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 04/16/2018 :  06:28:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The bulbs are not a problem... i have dimmable LED bulbs and they work perfectly with the 2477D switches. Just unsure of whether or not they will work with the In-Line dimmer. If you think it will, I might try it... hoping I can return it if it doesnít work...
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BLH
Advanced Member

5705 Posts

Posted - 04/16/2018 :  09:42:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If they work with a 2477D.
There is a good chance they would also work with the In-Line Module
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jewels
Starting Member

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 04/16/2018 :  09:57:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's what I was thinking... I'm going to give it a shot and cross my fingers I did not waste $50.
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