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Thinker
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2006 :  2:36:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone use these new LED bulbs? I don't see the lumens listed, which makes me a little concerned. It would be nice to know what the traditional equivalent is like they post on flourescent bulbs.

kenm
Senior Member

USA
295 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2006 :  4:49:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not sure exactly which one you are refering to but ...

The one I purchaced two years ago, advertised as a replacement for a 40 watt incandesent, was disappointing. It makes a nice reading lamp but will put little white spots on a target over about three feet.

The newer LEDs are bright enough to be rated in lumens. That is sometimes misleading as most LEDs have a focused lens. In front of a five watt LED may be 25 lumens but at 50 degrees you may only have 5 lumens. I'm not sure there is any standard for LED vs incandesent lumen measurement. The newer, and still expensive, LEDs are said to be more effecient than fluorescents at light output. So far none of those are in commercial household lighting products that I am aware of.

I'm guessing the existing ones, like mine, would make good low level light sources with a frosted lens. I'm using mine now in my garage door opener unit for the automatic light. Its more of a 'night light' when the door opens.

ken


Edited by - kenm on 10/25/2006 5:11:40 PM
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AutomatedOutlet
Average Member

USA
107 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2006 :  7:43:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit AutomatedOutlet's Homepage  Send AutomatedOutlet an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Also, be VERY careful. Almost all of them will produce tremendous amounts of signal noise and mess up communications of powerline based systems.

Martin Custer
Automated Outlet
708 Valley Ridge Circle, STE 5
Lewisville, TX 75057
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UniKyrn
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2006 :  06:52:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit UniKyrn's Homepage  Send UniKyrn an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Another problem is that they take so little current to activate, that the trickle current used by older 2 wire X-10 switches is enough to turn the light on. I haven't tried one using a modern 3 wire switch to see if that's still a problem.
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cnjoyal
Starting Member

Canada
2 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2006 :  09:14:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One other issue.. If you have a X10 controlled switched plug...don't put these lights on it. I blew a switch that way, and the LED lights were very strangely lit, and "pulsed" when we turned the radio on (yes...strange).

In the fine print on the switch, it basically says you can't use it for this purpose.. I put a timer in there instead so I could still automatate the lights turing on and off. I found after switches that will handle it on the smarthome site.. but I haven't tried one yet.
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hillbilly917
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2006 :  8:18:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I believe that the white LED bulbs are generally rated at about 2 lumens per LED, so a 15 led bulb would have about a 30 lumen output. But as previously mentioned, it is directional light that is brightest right in front of the bulb. They are still in their infancy but most major lighting companies are pouring a lot of R & D money into basic research so we will be seeing better things in years to come. If you want to try some at a reasonable price ($7 to $12) I found some at www.shop.donsgreenstore.com
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yurochko
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2007 :  11:09:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
interesting chat. So has anyone tried the new light bulb that smarthome is actually carrying - 36-LED Light Bulb Provides Bright Light Without Wasting Energy - Its $35, but it seems like if it runs on such little energy that it would make up its cost over a year or so (at least here in CA). If it doesn't look right though, i'm out.
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coo[ restricted ].hk
Starting Member

China
1 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  11:06:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit coo[ restricted ].hk's Homepage  Click to see coo[ restricted ].hk's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
You could use a wide beam angle LED spotlight,it will be better to solve the problem of directional light is too brightest in front of the bulb.

You also can choose High power LED bulbs using 1W/3W/5W Power LEDs. With it your reading experience will be very good.

David Zhu

sales@coo[ restricted ].hk

Taking LED products to your life www.coo[ restricted ].hk
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intellihome
Average Member

USA
68 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2007 :  08:48:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yurochko

interesting chat. So has anyone tried the new light bulb that smarthome is actually carrying - 36-LED Light Bulb Provides Bright Light Without Wasting Energy - Its $35, but it seems like if it runs on such little energy that it would make up its cost over a year or so (at least here in CA). If it doesn't look right though, i'm out.



I have one...very dim light (comparatively). Very localized light. It doesn't seem to "throw" light but rather just "glow"

Kevin
Intelli-Home Automation and Security
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BLH
Advanced Member

4460 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2007 :  3:55:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I picked up a small sampler pack of LED Bulbs. Most in the 1.5 to 3 watt range. They all glowed about 1/2 brightness with X10 and Smarthome modules. Even though I have had the Smarthome Insteon ApplianceLinc V2s work with CFL and X10 do not. None liked the LED Bulbs.
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mdrejhon
Junior Member

Canada
41 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2007 :  5:23:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit mdrejhon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Also, they have yet to design electronics that make flicker-free LED bulbs that are compatible with dimmers.

Unfiltered LED bulbs (i.e. LED Xmas lights) are dimmable and work great with lamp modules. So it is safe to use LED Xmas lights with X10 dimmers - no danger here.

Electronically-regulated or filtered (capacitored) LED bulbs are not dimmable don't work very well with lamp modules, and cause weird effects with a dimmer. And you can BLOW an X10 switch, just like you can with some non-dimmable compact fluorescents.

Eventually, flicker-free LED will be probably dimmable with standard wall dimmers (Full range 0 to 100% dimming) but they are not here yet.

For people with electronics background (understanding of how dimmers work, and how LED dimming works):
Good mass-manufactured electronics should make LED dimmable (Full range 0 to 100%) by using a PWM converter to convert the chopped triac'd AC (from a dimmer) into a proper high-frequency pulse-width-modulation (PWM) that you need for dimmable LED bulbs. It's technically feasible: It's been done in the lab, it just needs to be made cheap and mass manufactured. None of the 20% cutoff of the early dimmable compact fluorescents, none of the flicker of cheap LED such as Xmas lights. In fact, some smart electronics could be designed with RGB LED's to simulate the change in white balance as the light is dimmed (as incandescents become redder when they are dimmed). The capability of LED is there, in order to mimic incandescent dimming in a way superior to fluorescent dimming. But this capability is still untapped. Give it another 5 to 10 years for technology and mass manufacturing to catch up. The light bulb bans (2012 in some countries, such as Australia) will speed up innovation in these areas.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon -- www.marky.com

Edited by - mdrejhon on 09/07/2007 5:25:41 PM
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mdrejhon
Junior Member

Canada
41 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2007 :  10:38:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit mdrejhon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
FYI,

At the moment, I believe the world's best LED light bulb is the Enlux from www.enlux[ restricted ] .... Much more expensive but the light is MUCH better quality - more halogen-like than the cold LED.

They are dimmable using certain speciality dimmers (i.e. Lutron), but I'm not sure if Insteon dimmers are compatible with it.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon -- www.marky.com

Edited by - mdrejhon on 09/11/2007 10:39:17 AM
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shfaner
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2010 :  12:14:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ha ,so old thread, it's ok, i am glad to give my suggestions. When select the bulb, you have to consider the halogen led replacements where will use, what beam angle and what watt of the halogen bulb.etc. good luck.
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Sammer
Junior Member

USA
38 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2010 :  2:27:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mdrejhon

Give it another 5 to 10 years for technology and mass manufacturing to catch up. The light bulb bans (2012 in some countries, such as Australia) will speed up innovation in these areas.

Since this thread has been resurrected perhaps it should be mentioned that there has already been some changes. The incandescent phaseout actually began last year in some European Union countries. It will begin in the USA in 2012 although the sale of nearly all incandescent bulbs won't be effectively banned here until 2020.
At least two transitional technologies are joining compact fluorescents and the improving LEDs. The first is improved Halogen light bulbs that have already started to hit the market and the second is known as Electron Stimulated Lighting. Neither can meet the 2020 efficiency standards unless savings from dimming them are counted so they are being designed to have incandescent like dimmability.
Eventually everything mentioned may be replaced by Organic LED light bulbs but it may take quite a few years of development before that happens.
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Geo
Advanced Member

Canada
586 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2010 :  5:05:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
These new technologies have too many teething problems - I'll wait until they're resolved. The LEDs are driven by switching supplies, so they're not dimmable at this time. Frankly, it seems to me that somebody just forgot to think about it. It is doable, so why not have it right from the start? Now it's going to be an addition which will cost money.
It would help very much if politicians, who are generally ignorant beyond comprehension, stayed away from technical issues. New sources of light should take over the market on their merit, not by a decree. In the European Community the incandescent lights ban is in full swing - on the surface of it, though. In Germany one entrepreneur is making money hand over fist by importing incandescent bulbs from China which he had classified, under European Community Guidelines, as "ball shaped heaters" - or some such. I haven't the newspaper article available to get the name accurately. Every friend I have in Europe has stocked up on incandescent bulbs to last him a lifetime and longer. The bulb manufacturers had a successful year indeed.

GJN
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jumpingspider
Starting Member

8 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2010 :  7:53:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Compared to fluorescent bulbs, advantages claimed for LED light bulbs are that they contain no mercury (unlike compact fluorescent light bulbs), that they turn on instantly, and that lifetime is unaffected by cycling on and off, so that they are well suited for light fixtures where bulbs are often turned on and off. LED light bulbs are also less apt to break.
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BLH
Advanced Member

4460 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2010 :  03:29:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Geo; The EcoSmart ECS 19 WW 120 LED bulbs. Are dimmable and work quite well.
They use a driver IC designed for LEDs and dimming. Along with a passive power factor feature. Mine if memory serves me was around a PF of .95
Like many of them they are directional and in a table lamp the ceiling gets a good portion of the light. In overheads pointing down. You get most of the light.

Edited by - BLH on 11/27/2010 03:31:24 AM
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Geo
Advanced Member

Canada
586 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2010 :  05:19:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm aware that dimming of LED lights (not the Christmas type) has been addressed, but I haven't seen or tested any of those lamps - they're not available in my area and I didn't go out of my way to find them. Reading numerous reports I get amused with the amount of politics, marketing and pure BS. I understand the technical issues and for that reason keep my money until the dust settles.

GJN
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BLH
Advanced Member

4460 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2010 :  06:38:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OH that plan of keeping the money till the dust settles. Sounds real good.
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Geo
Advanced Member

Canada
586 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2010 :  07:55:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are just too many teething problems in addition to the lack of dimming that prevent me from plopping down cash - and not a negligible amount at that. It is my understanding that that the Energy Star rating has been withdrawn from the cone type LED light bulb, because its light is too focused and, generally, not well received by users. Another type which apparently solves this problem has not yet hit the North American shores, but sells in Europe for some $60. That doesn't look like a very good return on investment. The LED lighting industry will have to start producing true and complete data to credibly show switching to LEDs is good for us as well as the Earth.

GJN
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jscascio
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2011 :  6:56:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have not been successful finding an acceptable dimmable CFL or LED incandescent replacement for use with our X10 switches and lamp modules. Both the CFLs and LEDs have a strange flicker when in any state other than fully ON. Also, the LED still has a flicker/glow when the X10 switch and/or module is in the OFF state.

The LED I most recently tried is the Home Depot EcoSmart 40 watt equivalent A19 bulb. The EcoSmart is manufactured by Lighting Science Group, and is their Definity A19 3000K LM79 lamp.

http://lsgc.com/retail/products/product-family/interior/definity_lamps/A19

I am satisfied with the quantity and quality of the light from this bulb in its full ON state, but unless I can figure out how to make it stay in a non-flicker dim state, and turn completely off in an OFF state, it is not going to work for me.

Has anyone had any better luck that I have trying to use these in an X10 environment?
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BLH
Advanced Member

4460 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2011 :  06:49:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
X10 wall switches that are two wires Line and Load. With no neutral connection. Steal power through the load and will only work with incandescent type bulbs. Your flicker findings are typical for X10 wall switches.
Some users have been able to use one incandescent bulb and the rest LED or dimmable CFL in a fixture.
They should work on X10 lamp modules.
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Babarsan
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  10:30:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello everyone,
This is my first post to the Forums, however I have been trolling the site for well over a year now and just made my first Insteon purchase and installation.
I have been remodelling my daughters room and have just installed a Switchlinc (dimmer), a Switchlinc (relay) and a Keypadlinc (relay). The Switchlinc (dimmer) is controlling an overhead light and I had just installed a Philips 12 watt (60W equivalent) A19 Ambient LED Soft White dimmable Light Bulb (Model # 409904) that I picked up at Home Depot.
The bulbs are expensive at $39.97 each, and I had concerns that it would flicker or glow when turned off, however my initial impressions have all been good. It lights up the room well and seems to very closely match the 60W bulb I had replaced. The bulb does not seem to glow at all when the Switchlinc dimmer is turned off and it seems to respond fairly well to the dimming commands without any noticable flickering.
Just my thoughts after having it installed for 1 day, but overall I was happy with it. Even moreso, my wife is still happy with this little experiment.
Also, thanks for all of the good advice. Everyone's information has helped my first foray into the Insteon world go very smoothly.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8571 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  10:44:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the forum!

When folks ask about LEDs glowing when turned off, they are normally trying to use them with plug-in modules. Plug-in modules continue to provide a very low current to attached devices when turned off so they can detect if you toggle a switch built into the device or its line cord. This design works with conventional loads, but can provide small LEDs enough energy to glow until you add to the load.

Volunteer Moderator & Home Automation Enthusiast
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