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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2018 :  08:55:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just pulled the trigger on a new hub to replace my old one. . Oh yes, Iíve read about all of the horrors of setting them up. In fact im already having buyers remorse and itís not even here yet. I thought about the isy, but I use my insteon for very practical purposes. I live in an older house with little overhead lighting so every room has many lamps. Iíve installed an insteon switch in each room to control all the lamps. I thought the isy would be overkill, and I donít need a new hobby although Iíd really like an ďall offĒ feature. So why a new hub? Iím hoping the added rf range will help communicating with some outdoor devices that Iím having reliability issues with and I want to tinker with Alexa.

My question is... do I run both hubs and just use the new one for the outdoor/Alexa devices or do I reset everything and go with the new hub exclusively? Iím terrified I wonít be able to get my devices into linking mode after I reset them. Iíve been having this problem. Or does the new hub have a shot at fixing this?

Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10574 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2018 :  09:01:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hereís the official procedure: http://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/2015/10/20/migrating-to-a-new-insteon-hub

You can migrate gradually, a room or an area at a time. If the old Hub is working and you can remove scenes and devices from the original hub as you progress, thereís no need to reset anything.

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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  10:40:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the quick reply. I just sat down to tinker with this. Is thereís good thread you remember that discusses the ins and outs of running two hubs? Must I delete a device from one hub to add it to the other, etc.
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jackman
Average Member

178 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  10:58:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would think you can run them side by side. It becomes a management task to keep track of what you're doing on each hub especially if you have scheduled events. It might get confusing in a hurry. I like to keep things simple so I'd choose to have only one.
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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  11:10:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here goes nothing. 30 devices. 15 scenes. When deleting scenes what do you do with devices that wonít go into linking mode? Iím m already running into that issue as I type this.
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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  12:15:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay, I have several devices so far that wonít go into linking mode. A pop up window in the app gives you the option to try again or skip. At some point you have to hit skip. The procedure moves on and eventually deletes the scene. Iím wondering though if those devices now think they are part of a scene that no longer exists...-and what to do about it.

I am editing this to add/confirm that scenes are no longer showing up in the app, but the devices still behave as if they are part of the deleted scene. If I turn the switch on/off the devices that didnít go into linking mode are still controlled by the switch even though the scene is deleted. Ideas?

Edited by - gregcolins on 01/14/2018 12:36:58 PM
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jackman
Average Member

178 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  12:53:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would do a factory reset on any of the devices that misbehave.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10574 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  3:02:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Stop, do not proceed. Youíll create a real mess if you donít identify the problem unlinking and you just keep going like nothing is wrong.

When you say you Ďcanít start linkingí, thereís a reason for that. Devices might have been locked in software, or thereís a communications problem communicating across the split-single phase with single-band devices, or thereís a noise issue on the breaker which the Hub is attached to. Are you using many older, single-band devices? Are these single-band switches, where the LED under the Set button only shows up white? If so, do you have any Access Points installed? If so, first thing, check that the APís are working by performing the same procedure you used to install them.

Also check the individual device settings and UN-check Program Lock, if that is set.

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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  8:06:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lol...as I alluded to earlier I thought the hub was the likely problem. So I did plow ahead. After hitting try again so many times your only other option is to ignore and keep going. So now my pants are at my ankles. The hub is cleared of all devices except some that are linked to a mini remote I was trying to resuscitate. (Itís been plugged in 6 hours and still has a solid red light and does not respond to button pushes with a green flash).

I agree there may be some noise in my system, but I just had my panel replaced ( for other reasons) and things had gotten better. I also went through the house and unplugged space heaters, ham radio equipment etc. anything I thought was suspect. I even waited for the furnace to kick off. No joy. I just realized today after searching that not all wired in insteon devices are dual band. I had always assumed they were. Thatís what sold me on insteon. How do I tell if they are dual band? The only hint I can offer is that they have been installed in the past 5 years. I just took a look at some devices yet to be installed and realized that some devices say dual band on the box and some do not. Am I to assume that a device that does not have dual band on the box is single band and how do you tell after installed?

Any advice greatly appreciated. Factory reset devices?

Edited by - gregcolins on 01/14/2018 8:07:45 PM
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Tfitzpatri8
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USA
10574 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  8:35:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Iím unsureóif the programming lock was set in software, then you Ďskippedí the error and force-removed then from the 2242, you may end up needing to replace those modules.

You can certainly try a factory reset, but Iíd still work a room at a time. No sense erasing working scene relationships between wall switches and room lamps until you first confirm that youíll be able to set them back up with the 2245.

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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  06:45:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As for the programming lock. I certainly did not lock them nor was I prompted by the app that there was a problem other than ďunable to put device into linking modeĒ. I understand that doesnít necessarily mean it wasnít locked.

Advice on the mini remote? It appears to be dead. Red light when plugged in. Unpluged I get no lights at all when I push buttons. I have 2 scenes and 3 devices tied to it. Unless anyone has any ideas. Iím going to force delete those if I can.

How can I check that my devices are dual band moving forward I want to make sure this doesnít happen again.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
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Posted - 01/15/2018 :  10:17:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To recharge a Mini Remote, you plug it into a usb charger. It glows red while charging, then the light turns off automatically when the charge cycle is complete. Then you can unplug it and use it normally.

If the red light never goes on, try a different charger and cord. If the light never goes out, the batteryís probably reached its end of life.

When INSTEON first arrived on the market in 2005, all the modules were single-band except for the SignaLinc RF (later replaced by Access Points)óyouíd install two of those to bridge the split-single phase power installed in most US homes. A few years later, they started adding RF components to switches and modules to build more robust networks that could get around more interference using multiple signal paths.

At this point, the only power line gear that I know of that is still single band are any new-old stock ToggleLincs and IOLincs. Battery-powered gear, low voltage thermostats, and two-wire SwitchLincs have to be single-band RF since they donít have a direct connection to your 120 volt power grid.

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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  1:21:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Thanks for the info on the remote. Itís dead. Itís been charging for 24 hours and nothing but a red light. Funny thing i used the thing until the battery died and never made the effort until now to track down a cord. So itís never been recharged. Go figure.

Anyway the rebuild is going better than expected. I have most of my devices added back. Iím in the process of building scenes Iím having some trouble in the same old spots. Always on outside walls (?). But usually 10 or 15 tries I can get them linked up.

On a possibly related note...Anyone know if the 2456s3 appliancelinc is dual band? I have a ton of these in an area of my house giving me trouble. Even after scanning the manual I canít figure it out. It does day ďif you have the dual band version...Ē. Well do I???? Sweet sainted mother of all thatís holy. They donít go out of their way to make it easy. Lol.

I was racking my brain trying to remember why I bought all of these bricks hiding behind my furniture. Then I remembered this is all they kept in stock at my local Best Buy and I think they were cheaper than the lamplinks by 10 bucks or so. This was back in the day before same day Amazon and it took a week to get your goodies from Smarthome.
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jackman
Average Member

178 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  1:38:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gregcolins



On a possibly related note...Anyone know if the 2456s3 appliancelinc is dual band?




They're power line only. Try moving an access point closer and make sure that you have one on each leg of your power panel.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10574 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  1:58:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Mini Remote has a 1 year warranty, so unless itís been hidden in a drawer you can probably get it replaced.

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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  2:07:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jackman

quote:
Originally posted by gregcolins



On a possibly related note...Anyone know if the 2456s3 appliancelinc is dual band?




They're power line only. Try moving an access point closer and make sure that you have one on each leg of your power panel.



Bingo! Thank you. I kept telling myself thereís no way those things are single band. I mean look at the size of Ďem...you could fit the Arecibo dish in one of those. Guess I was wrong. Opportunity missed if you ask me. Heh. This could solve some problems for me.

Edited by - gregcolins on 01/15/2018 2:08:17 PM
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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2018 :  7:23:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all of the advice. Iím pleased to report that Iím thrilled with the new hub. For whatever reason everything is now humming along. I used to cringe before updating or changing a scene ( because devices would disappear, react erratically, etc.)now I can tinker at will. That being said I have a couple issues:

1. My dining room scene is a switchlinc controlling a chandelier as the load and 4 lamps. I have the on level for the chandelier as a device set for 75%. If I manually hit the switch it works. However, if I use a kpl or Alexa to control the scene the chandelier comes on 100%. Ideas?

2. I just installed the Alexa app on my wifeís phone. When I went to the Smarthome section of her app I noticed that my ďrenamesĒ for scenes/ devices didnít carry over.
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lilyoyo1
Senior Member

234 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2018 :  11:48:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You have to set the scene itself to the level that you want the lights to be on at. Seeing only the device only works when you control that device.
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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  05:52:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lilyoyo1

You have to set the scene itself to the level that you want the lights to be on at. Seeing only the device only works when you control that device.



I thought of of that, but I just went back and looked. I don't see the option to set the on level in the scene building/editing process. Where is it?
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lakeguy
Average Member

USA
66 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  06:43:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

Stop, do not proceed. Youíll create a real mess if you donít identify the problem unlinking and you just keep going like nothing is wrong.



While I agree with the advice, this points out a long-standing peeve I have with the app. As the OP states, when this happens, you are given 2 options; "Retry" or "Skip". There is no way to cancel out and stop other than to go to the app manager and force stopping the app. Not sure, but this may be just as messy as skipping.

There should be a cancel option if you reach this point.
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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  07:18:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lakeguy

quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

Stop, do not proceed. Youíll create a real mess if you donít identify the problem unlinking and you just keep going like nothing is wrong.



While I agree with the advice, this points out a long-standing peeve I have with the app. As the OP states, when this happens, you are given 2 options; "Retry" or "Skip". There is no way to cancel out and stop other than to go to the app manager and force stopping the app. Not sure, but this may be just as messy as skipping.

There should be a cancel option if you reach this point.



Yea, well there are a lot of things Insteon could do to polish things up. I'm assuming this equity firm that has taken over will get the company financially ready for sale so they can sell it to a company that will know how to package and market the technology to the broader public. Amazon, Google, Apple, Phillips, who knows? Equity firms don't buy companies to run them. They flip them.

In the mean time, plowing ahead worked out just fine for me this . I had to factory reset 3 devices (2 of witch were unlinked/deleted properly) and I have one device in a floor plug under an oriental rug and seven pieces of heavy furniture that I did not add back to the new hub, but still works with the room scene anyway (who knows? Used the same name I guess and it remembered?). I'll have to deal with that(it doesn't show up in the app) when I have more energy.

I had stopped when I got the errors in the past, but never got anywhere. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10574 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  07:22:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lakeguy

quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

Stop, do not proceed. Youíll create a real mess if you donít identify the problem unlinking and you just keep going like nothing is wrong.



While I agree with the advice, this points out a long-standing peeve I have with the app. As the OP states, when this happens, you are given 2 options; "Retry" or "Skip". There is no way to cancel out and stop other than to go to the app manager and force stopping the app. Not sure, but this may be just as messy as skipping.

There should be a cancel option if you reach this point.


For anyone running into this situation, submitting a comment via the in-app feedback option would be worthwhile. It really needs three options, since Retry is necessary if you realize a module has been unplugged, and Skip is necessary in the event the target device is broken and unable to respond.

Another alternative might be to run a signals test on all the target modules in the scene (the same way it does when you first enroll a module) to identify any marginal signals before starting linking or unlinking processes.

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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  12:03:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

quote:
Originally posted by lakeguy

quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

Stop, do not proceed. Youíll create a real mess if you donít identify the problem unlinking and you just keep going like nothing is wrong.



While I agree with the advice, this points out a long-standing peeve I have with the app. As the OP states, when this happens, you are given 2 options; "Retry" or "Skip". There is no way to cancel out and stop other than to go to the app manager and force stopping the app. Not sure, but this may be just as messy as skipping.

There should be a cancel option if you reach this point.


For anyone running into this situation, submitting a comment via the in-app feedback option would be worthwhile. It really needs three options, since Retry is necessary if you realize a module has been unplugged, and Skip is necessary in the event the target device is broken and unable to respond.

Another alternative might be to run a signals test on all the target modules in the scene (the same way it does when you first enroll a module) to identify any marginal signals before starting linking or unlinking processes.



I will do this, although it should be noted that I often hit retry several times and it then finally works. A module need not be unplugged, etc.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10574 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  12:58:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Signal interference (originating inside the home or from outside, from neighbors) can definitely be intermittent. Thatís probably why the signal test, run when you add a new module, makes contact multiple times.

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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  1:50:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Back to this mornings question...anyone know where to set the on level for a load in a scene (in the app)?
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10574 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  2:10:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Adjust the scene on level in the Insteon Hub app. If you turn on the Insteon scene using Alexa or the Hub app, all devices turn on to the level defined in the scene.

If you turn on the device, ďonĒ means 100%. Alternatively, you can say ďAlexa, set [dimmer name] to [number]Ē to go directly to a different brightness.

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lakeguy
Average Member

USA
66 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  07:30:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8
Another alternative might be to run a signals test on all the target modules in the scene (the same way it does when you first enroll a module) to identify any marginal signals before starting linking or unlinking processes.



I'd appreciate a pointer on how to run a signals test...thanks
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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  10:14:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lakeguy

quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8
Another alternative might be to run a signals test on all the target modules in the scene (the same way it does when you first enroll a module) to identify any marginal signals before starting linking or unlinking processes.



I'd appreciate a pointer on how to run a signals test...thanks


Each device has a method for the test, sometimes referred to as a Beacon or 4-tap test. The Owners Manual describes how to do it and the expected resule, usually 4 very, very quick taps of the set button.

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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10574 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  11:33:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lakeguy

quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8
Another alternative might be to run a signals test on all the target modules in the scene (the same way it does when you first enroll a module) to identify any marginal signals before starting linking or unlinking processes.



I'd appreciate a pointer on how to run a signals test...thanks



I was actually suggesting a change INSTEON could make to their Hub app, not something you can do easily today. The next time you add a new module, pay close attention and youíll see the app runs 5 or 10 signal tests (depending on whether it is battery or line powered) as it adds the module. If it detects marginal signals, itíll then recommend that you relocate the device or add a dual-band module to provide a better signal. If the app re ran that test before building or modifying a scene, it could help people who developed post installation signal problems avoid the retry/skip issue.

Thatís separate from the beacon test, which helps identify RF signal range and sides of the split-single phase power system using dual-band modules only.


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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
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Posted - 01/20/2018 :  12:44:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gregcolins


Thanks for the info on the remote. Itís dead. Itís been charging for 24 hours and nothing but a red light. Funny thing i used the thing until the battery died and never made the effort until now to track down a cord. So itís never been recharged. Go figure.


If it's never been charged, then you may be able to save it. Unplug it for a day and plug it back in. The red light should extinguish within a few hours.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
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Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.


Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum.
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gregcolins
Junior Member

51 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  4:58:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

quote:
Originally posted by gregcolins


Thanks for the info on the remote. Itís dead. Itís been charging for 24 hours and nothing but a red light. Funny thing i used the thing until the battery died and never made the effort until now to track down a cord. So itís never been recharged. Go figure.


If it's never been charged, then you may be able to save it. Unplug it for a day and plug it back in. The red light should extinguish within a few hours.



Thanks for the tip. Iíll try that. I hope I didnít pitch it.
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