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BLH Posted - 11/14/2014 : 3:20:59 PM
I just got my 2014 Smarthome Holiday Catalog.
Along with the HUB. A $39.99 HUB II is also listed.
I have not compared the features between the two of them yet.
It has not made it to the Smarthome Sales Pages yet.
The Users and Quick Manuals are on the Insteon.com Manuals page.
It is also in the FCC Database.
Grantee: SBP. Product Code:22452
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
BLH Posted - 10/15/2015 : 11:24:04 AM
I am still using an X10 RR501 for my HR12A palm pad remote and ISY994i controller.
All of my older Insteon ApplianceLincs can have an 10 Primary and Scene Address in them.
Newer Insteon modules are also dropping X10 support.
I do have a XTB-IIR X10 repeater that does not false on Insteon commands anf hits the power lines with over a ten volt X10 signal.
Tfitzpatri8 Posted - 10/15/2015 : 08:11:16 AM
Only the EZX10RF has a 300 MHz radio. Insteon gear uses the 900 MHz radio frequency instead to support Insteon's two-way communications.

Insteon has been gradually phasing out power line X10 support for a while now. The original Insteon Hub offered very simple x10 support--you could assign an icon on the devices page to send an x10 on or off code--but they dropped that feature when they released the newer, smaller, less expensive Hub at the end last year. Troubleshooting x10 signal issues is probably just too time-intensive now, with so many common household electronics thwarting or mimicking the simple x10 signals.

I get the impression Apple's HomeKit spec doesn't allow connection to unsecure x10 devices, so the Hub Pro isn't an option either.

Universal Devices' ISY line still supports x10 power line signals, though with that you would still need an x10 transceiver to put the Palmpad RF signal on the power line.
EVIL Teken Posted - 10/15/2015 : 06:50:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by johnpolasek

I searched, but haven't found anything (other than the complete lack of mention in the users guide), so I'll ask: Has the Hub "Pro" dropped X-10 functionality? I was planning to use PalmPads to provide lighting control in the barn installation I am doing because they have proven themselves to be rugged and capable for over 30 years, and with the ability to send 32 unique commands they have more capability than anything Insteon short of a smartphone app. With a couple of "original" style hubs in other locations, I was able to define X10 "devices" that could then be used as controllers for fairly complex scenes through a fairly cheap single house code X10 receiver just by sticking them up on the walls. But now the new Insteon App no longer shows X10 Devices as an option when I log into the Hub Pro, and a quick bit of experimentation with an insteon appliance module showed that while I could assign it an X10 address and it would respond to the palmpad on and off, the hub does not update to reflect the changed state until you change to a different "room" and come back to the one containing the module... so will my only option be to spend more than the cost of the hub fo get an EZX10RF module?



The HUB Pro does not support the X10 protocol nor does the 2245-222 HUB II. The older 2242-222 HUB v2 did and also supported HL2 software.
johnpolasek Posted - 10/15/2015 : 05:48:49 AM
I searched, but haven't found anything (other than the complete lack of mention in the users guide), so I'll ask: Has the Hub "Pro" dropped X-10 functionality? I was planning to use PalmPads to provide lighting control in the barn installation I am doing because they have proven themselves to be rugged and capable for over 30 years, and with the ability to send 32 unique commands they have more capability than anything Insteon short of a smartphone app. With a couple of "original" style hubs in other locations, I was able to define X10 "devices" that could then be used as controllers for fairly complex scenes through a fairly cheap single house code X10 receiver just by sticking them up on the walls. But now the new Insteon App no longer shows X10 Devices as an option when I log into the Hub Pro, and a quick bit of experimentation with an insteon appliance module showed that while I could assign it an X10 address and it would respond to the palmpad on and off, the hub does not update to reflect the changed state until you change to a different "room" and come back to the one containing the module... so will my only option be to spend more than the cost of the hub fo get an EZX10RF module?
stusviews Posted - 10/01/2015 : 10:32:12 PM
This is a user-to-user forum. The people at SH usually don't read these posts.

It's too bad that HouseLinc is at end of life. I, too, found that there was nothing I couldn't accomplish with HouseLinc and a bunch of ingenuity. My solution was to invest in an ISY. Moving from free to costly was not easy, but worth it
sonicpepsi Posted - 10/01/2015 : 7:15:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jtmoderate876

quote:
Originally posted by EVIL Teken

quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

quote:
Originally posted by cybershawngates
I wish Houselinc worked with this hub II. That way I could get at what is linked with what etc.


Even if there was compatibility, based on what Houselinc shows with the earlier Hub, you can only see the Hub scene number, not the devices in the scene. To do that you have to look at the links for each device and find the scene numbers that match.



In the big picture this new HUB II is field up-gradable. So, this does leave the door open for any possible changes in view of how previous features worked etc.

Smartlabs has committed to the cloud moving forward. It comes down to now letting the talented people who manage this project incorporate all the feature sets being asks for.

Since I haven't seen anyone list off any of the most common requests here goes.

1. Include diagnostic tools such as those from HL into the HUB II.

2. Allow local access with out the need of the cloud should the user wish it.

3. Conditional Logic: Provide more conditional logic like if, then, else, etc

4. DST / Dusk / Dawn: All this section be customized per end user requirements.

5. Repeater: This device should operate as a repeater with out the need to enroll a device. If its plugged in it should operate like a AP / Range Extender.

6. Product Support: I have no clue how a product that is made by the actual maker does not support their own wares?? This totally defeats the purpose of *All the time, online, cloud* if the product isn't set to auto update it should!

If there is anything I missed please reply back and I will append the list.



To Teken's list I would also like to see added:
- Security +/- ramdomize functionality to all times
- Time delay (when garage is open
- Ability to use Double-click for control. In HouseLic we use Double to turn off entire rooms (kitchen has about 5 lights, Master has 5 too, living room 3, etc).
- Ability to do simple "If bathroom light on for an hour turn it off" (This may be considered "Conditional" logic but is most basic)



Wow!! Just WOW!! Just ordered my Hub 2 and started looking for what I would get with a newer device. Looks like I"m going to only lose from the great HouseLinc software. I could make the software do EVERYTHING I always wanted and now I'm thinking I should never unbox the thing.

I bought into this tech because I cold do the things that the new device can not do. I have purchased many $$, as we all have, and now it all seems like more of a waste. I really hope the SmartHome is reading these posts. I"m only on the 2nd page so I hope it is getting better.
stusviews Posted - 01/28/2015 : 11:46:24 AM
Local control is usually defined to be manually pressing a paddle or button.

If you use the Hub to create a scene where a button or paddle controls several devices, then that button or paddle will continue to function without the Hub.

The Hub is also a controller of that same scene, but the Hub requires the cloud to function as a controller.
Qsilverrd Posted - 01/28/2015 : 11:40:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

If the cloud is down, both local control and scenes continue to function. Schedules and alerts don't.


I'm not sure how scenes I set up in the hub can be activated if my app cannot talk to the hub without the cloud active. Obviously switches still work.
I think it would be a simple software change to allow the app to connect at last known configuration...
EVIL Teken Posted - 01/26/2015 : 2:19:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

If the cloud is down, both local control and scenes continue to function. Schedules and alerts don't.



I think we need to clarify what is meant by local. Yes, a person can physically turn on any switch on / off. Any scenes that are linked will continue to operate on a local level.

Unless things have changed if the cloud is off line. There is no method to use the smart phone App to make schedules / alert notification changes.

I gather the ability to add / remove devices into the HUB is still operational but don't know even at what level this continues to operate.
stusviews Posted - 01/26/2015 : 2:02:27 PM
If the cloud is down, both local control and scenes continue to function. Schedules and alerts don't.
EVIL Teken Posted - 01/26/2015 : 11:57:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Qsilverrd

So the hub is cool. Took a little to get set up, nothing terribly difficult.
The app is a little slow to connect.

My single complaint is if I am on wireless 192.168.N.xxx and the hub is on the same 192.168.N.xxx network, allow the app to start up with the last known configuration if the cloud is down.

It's frustrating when the "Insteon cloud" is down for any reason, the controller won't work..



The whole concept of immediate control of a local devices via the cloud is just stupid and moronic. Local control and access should always be present.

The cloud should simply be an alternate method should you NOT be local or have local access.

The fact so many people are sold on this concept will truly be the nail in the HA industry. This has never been the purpose or intent of the cloud.

The reality is vendors do this because its cheap and easy to deploy. This negates the whole purpose of the cloud concept which is off loading high resources, high availability, scaling, and restricting access.

Coupled with the infinite ability to push updates and add features to hardware / software platforms. The most important aspect of the off site cloud is redundancy of held storage of data.

Smartlabs current iteration of the *Cloud* is far from how its used and deployed in the Enterprise world.
Qsilverrd Posted - 01/26/2015 : 09:37:57 AM
So the hub is cool. Took a little to get set up, nothing terribly difficult.
The app is a little slow to connect.

My single complaint is if I am on wireless 192.168.N.xxx and the hub is on the same 192.168.N.xxx network, allow the app to start up with the last known configuration if the cloud is down.

It's frustrating when the "Insteon cloud" is down for any reason, the controller won't work..
Artie b Posted - 01/25/2015 : 1:28:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cybershawngates

I really want ot like this product but the problems are so far almost a deal breaker

Not sure why it's slow to load - to resolve a dynamic IP should not be an issue since Qwhomeautomation did it lighting fast. This is 2014 and a little login processing should not take this long (My guess is buggy app as the Ios one seems a bit faster). Speed I can live with.

The android app is very buggy. If you exit the app by pressing home you have to use a task killer to restart it. This is absoluately amazing and I don't know how the average person deals with this

insteon scenes buggy - I have one scene for front lights, 1/2 the time the wrong scene fires and the house lights turn on instead. The timers don't work 1/2 the time nor does sunrise and sunset. This is crazy too - angry family members when the wrong lights turn on and the front house lights dont turn on. Obviously there is some bug in the scene code and somehow my two scenes are mixed up or somehow the entries get confused.

I wish Houselinc worked with this hub II. That way I could get at what is linked with what etc.

stusviews Posted - 01/04/2015 : 4:01:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by wbradney
How are you editing links with the Windows 8/WP8 apps? I can't seem to find anything that sophisticated in there...


Scenes are links between devices. Any time you create, modify or delete a scene, the appropriate links are created, modified or deleted.
stusviews Posted - 01/04/2015 : 3:59:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jtmoderate876
Does this mean you should only have one Sunrise scene?
I currently have two and I think they work but will make sure.


Yes, only one scene should have a schedule for a particular time.
wbradney Posted - 01/04/2015 : 10:43:56 AM
quote:
I have a windows phone, and Windows 8.1. The app works on both. The only issue that appears to not work correctly is the 6 button scene controller only shows up as a single off/on in the app. The A-D scenes do not show up in either apps. Remote features worked, no issues with my router.

I can setup the typical cross linking of switches. I have a motion detector on the outside lights on the garage doors. I have some off times set in case I leave lights on outside.



How are you editing links with the Windows 8/WP8 apps? I can't seem to find anything that sophisticated in there...
jtmoderate876 Posted - 01/04/2015 : 05:15:38 AM
For anyone with an existing Insteon setup prior to getting the 2245-222 HUB II note that the Hub doesn't seem to recognize existing links in the system.
For example, my houselinc (running with the USB PLM) can see any new links created via the Hub but the Hub doesn't see all the existing links inside devices.
After seeing unexpected behavior, looking at the device in houselinc allowed me to really see what was going on - which were some rogue links created either manually, by houselinc or by the hub - I don't know.

I was able to use houselinc to clean it up.
jtmoderate876 Posted - 01/04/2015 : 05:06:02 AM
If anyone tries http: stuff, API or wagware utility with the new hub (2245-222) please post here or somewhere on smarthome forum.
I briefly tried just
http://X.X.X.X:25105/network.htm
I get prompted for username and password (which are written on the bottom of the new hub)
but then I get XML back that doesn't make any sense to me:
<Bs>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="00.00.00.00"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
<S D="EF"/>
</Bs>


I've also tried
http://X.X.X.X:25105/config.htm {this was from older hub posts}
and it gives 404 not found with a redirect link to
http://X.X.X.X:25105/mpfsupload
which says:
MPFS Image Upload
and seems to provide the ability to upload a file - but I don't know what that is for.
jtmoderate876 Posted - 01/04/2015 : 05:04:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by EVIL Teken

quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

quote:
Originally posted by cybershawngates
I wish Houselinc worked with this hub II. That way I could get at what is linked with what etc.


Even if there was compatibility, based on what Houselinc shows with the earlier Hub, you can only see the Hub scene number, not the devices in the scene. To do that you have to look at the links for each device and find the scene numbers that match.



In the big picture this new HUB II is field up-gradable. So, this does leave the door open for any possible changes in view of how previous features worked etc.

Smartlabs has committed to the cloud moving forward. It comes down to now letting the talented people who manage this project incorporate all the feature sets being asks for.

Since I haven't seen anyone list off any of the most common requests here goes.

1. Include diagnostic tools such as those from HL into the HUB II.

2. Allow local access with out the need of the cloud should the user wish it.

3. Conditional Logic: Provide more conditional logic like if, then, else, etc

4. DST / Dusk / Dawn: All this section be customized per end user requirements.

5. Repeater: This device should operate as a repeater with out the need to enroll a device. If its plugged in it should operate like a AP / Range Extender.

6. Product Support: I have no clue how a product that is made by the actual maker does not support their own wares?? This totally defeats the purpose of *All the time, online, cloud* if the product isn't set to auto update it should!

If there is anything I missed please reply back and I will append the list.



To Teken's list I would also like to see added:
- Security +/- ramdomize functionality to all times
- Time delay (when garage is open
- Ability to use Double-click for control. In HouseLic we use Double to turn off entire rooms (kitchen has about 5 lights, Master has 5 too, living room 3, etc).
- Ability to do simple "If bathroom light on for an hour turn it off" (This may be considered "Conditional" logic but is most basic)
jtmoderate876 Posted - 01/04/2015 : 04:53:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

Are any timers set for the same or nearly the same time? If so, then some or all won't function. Use a single scene for all timers that turn on at or near the same time.

It's OK to have different off times for different devices in the same On scene, if desired. Use one or more separate Off scenes.



Does this mean you should only have one Sunrise scene?
I currently have two and I think they work but will make sure.
stusviews Posted - 12/12/2014 : 9:53:54 PM
If the Hub cannot find the camera after removing an Ethernet cable, the the difficulty is the WiFi signal, not the Hub, not the camera.

Can you access the camera using the included IP camera software?
dmpaden Posted - 12/12/2014 : 8:58:17 PM
I can't get my cameras to work with this hub over wi fi. During the setup, when I connect the ethernet cable, it works fine, but then it instructs to remove the cable and it cannot find the hub. I sent an email to tech support a week ago and heard nothing. I called once and was on hold for over 30 minutes then finally hung up. I think I'll return the cameras before the 30 days is up since I cannot get support
Tfitzpatri8 Posted - 12/10/2014 : 12:56:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jtempleton

I had the same issue with the original Hub creating improper links all over the place (using the Hub app). It was one of the many reasons I abandoned it. Same thing, I did a bunch of cleanup using Houselinc. As I recall (somebody correct me if I'm wrong here) the issue was due to the fact that the Hub does not read/write links from devices like you do in Houselinc, instead it sets various devices into linking/unlinking mode similar to using the tap-tap method. The result is any signal issues may result in the wrong devices being linked to each other.


Exactly. By remotely putting devices in linking or unlinking mode and allowing each controller and responder device to manage its own link database, the Hub eliminates the need to push app updates or provide new device definitions each time they release a switch or module device update. The downside is as you describe--if communications errors (especially with older units that use a less robust extended message checksum) prevent a device from linking when prodded, it is possible to create unintentional device relationships.

They try to proactively identify communications problems as devices are added, that's what those 10 communications tests it runs as part of the add new device process do. That's probably also why the app recommends relocating a device or adding a range booster when a device fails the test.

The current app doesn't prevent people from 'cheating'--not fixing the communications issue by adding a device, and instead moving devices closer to the Hub to add them then moving it back to a location with marginal comms. That can come back to bite you if you try to create or modify scenes under those conditions, ignore the error messages, and end up linking devices unintentionally.
stusviews Posted - 12/10/2014 : 12:05:13 PM
If the Hub was able to turn devices on and off without linking them, then anyone with a Hub could drive by and control all your devices.

When a scene is created, the controller(s) maintain a record of the responder(s) name (Insteon ID) and, if the responder is a dimmer, the On-level and ramp rate. When the scene is activated, the controller sends instructions to every device it can reach, much like electricity flows through every available path.

Responders are always listening for instructions from devices they've been linked to. If a particular responder is not the target device, then it repeats the signal.
cybershawngates Posted - 12/10/2014 : 11:24:49 AM
Insteon scene question - when a "scene" is created is it given an Insteon ID? If not how is the scene stored (is it stored in a device - or is it simply the idea that all devices are just linked to each other in a scene).

For example I want to have a scene to turn on/off front house lights and a scene to switch all internal lights off/on
cybershawngates Posted - 12/10/2014 : 11:22:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jtempleton

I had the same issue with the original Hub creating improper links all over the place (using the Hub app). It was one of the many reasons I abandoned it. Same thing, I did a bunch of cleanup using Houselinc. As I recall (somebody correct me if I'm wrong here) the issue was due to the fact that the Hub does not read/write links from devices like you do in Houselinc, instead it sets various devices into linking/unlinking mode similar to using the tap-tap method. The result is any signal issues may result in the wrong devices being linked to each other.



YES you're exactly right. When it goes into linking mode it links the wrong stuff sometimes.

I'm not sure why the hub just can't switch things off and on without linking them. Why complicate things. I used an app called qwhomeautomation and I could set up a timer to do just about any off/on operation. Worked great. I am tempted to just use that app until the hub2 "matures" or they get us a way to use houselinc.
jtempleton Posted - 12/10/2014 : 07:52:31 AM
I had the same issue with the original Hub creating improper links all over the place (using the Hub app). It was one of the many reasons I abandoned it. Same thing, I did a bunch of cleanup using Houselinc. As I recall (somebody correct me if I'm wrong here) the issue was due to the fact that the Hub does not read/write links from devices like you do in Houselinc, instead it sets various devices into linking/unlinking mode similar to using the tap-tap method. The result is any signal issues may result in the wrong devices being linked to each other.
cybershawngates Posted - 12/09/2014 : 12:33:27 PM
So for the last few days my lights have been going crazy. Random lights turn on and I was going crazy. So I plugged in my houselinc/usb powerline insteon device and found all sorts of duplicate links - I've deleted them all and I think that will stop the craziness. These were all created by the new device when I tried to program scenes.

Clearly This new hub is in it's infancy. please give us houselinc access or beef up the apps for these devices to make them robust and abaility to see what (duplicate) links are created.

paceyben Posted - 12/08/2014 : 10:29:10 PM
Can't believe it has a demo telnet server running but no plm pass through port.
ebsims319 Posted - 12/08/2014 : 5:19:13 PM
I hope they take your advice Teken. You pretty much covered it.

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