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Moe
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2014 :  05:59:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Both a friend and myself installed an Insteon system at the same time. It was interesting when both of our PLM's died almost to the day, just a little over the 2 year manufacturers warranty. By a couple of weeks.

Based on the searching on the internet, it is a clear pattern that they fail just over 2 years. Why is Insteon taking their customers for granted? It is not exactly a cheap system to install.

Why hasn't insteon bothered to improve their production process. A Manufacturers warranty is not supposed to be the minimum working time.

Shouldn't planned obsolescence be against the law, especially when it is so blatant like the PLM 2413S?

BLH
Advanced Member

6219 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2014 :  08:21:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is a thread on the UDI forums about this problem.
It is mostly the power supply.
It was also noted that the latest hardware revision has updated power supply parts. So it is possible Smartlabs is addressing the issue.
Adventurous folks have rebuilt theirs. If it is over the two year warranty and can't be replaced under that warranty.
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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2014 :  11:53:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sometimes, when a manufacturer discovers a defect, the device is recalled. When that's not feasible, a manufacturer may create something new and and offer it at a low cost or even free.

Although it's been a while, give SH a call








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hannahdelavel123
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2015 :  04:56:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting! However, would you support planned obsolescence? Here's a familiar scenario: the washer or television breaks down, so an individual calls the manufacturer for a spare part. However, they are informed the part isn't really made anymore, so they'll have to just buy a new one. That's called planned obsolescence and it is built into just about any product one can name. Read more: http://personalmoneynetwork.com/moneyblog/2012/08/30/planned-obsolescence/
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BLH
Advanced Member

6219 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2015 :  05:09:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Universal Devices is in the process of manufacturing their own PLM. Expected late first quarter or early second quarter of 2015.
Using a much better design and Smartlabs Licensed Firmware.
As for the 2413S and 2413U. The filter capacitors in them where what was failing. Reports are the latest Hardware 2.0 has a more beefed up power supply. So the two year failure time my no longer apply.
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2015 :  05:54:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Every company builds and designs around MTBF. This was the first question I posed when taking Industrial Electronics & Networking.

The reality is the 50's Era is long gone and will never come back. Back in the day companies built their reputation that anything they designed, built, made, would last for a very long time. This isn't the hall mark of any company these days.

Its *Profit before people* mentality and squeezing out every last penny out of the consumer. Smartlabs isn't any different from any other vendor. The only time you see companies making changes is when they get sued or when it starts to affect the bottom line.

Remember the the above tag line: Profit before people . . .

If it ever impacts profit this is when they make a change. When bad press hits the Interwebs and millions of people read these forums, blogs, and postings. This is the only time changes are seen and made. Back in the day it was a huge competitive advantage in having the ability to say this XYZ will last 9999999 years, cycles, duration, etc.

We see this now with LED bulbs and other related tech. Sadly, this new fad doesn't trickle down to all industries and sectors. You will never see this done in the automotive world, TV's, etc. The reality is we the people are the primary cause for this sh*t show. Because we want the cheapest product with the most features at the lowest out the door price.

The only time things get cheaper is when the scale is higher (bulk purchase) or where mass volumes are being sold or (subsidized) by Governments etc.

Outside of the above its *Public Shaming* which also impacts the bottom line. If everyone knows you make crappy products you won't have a market. No market, no company, regardless of the demand.

I for one am happy that Smartlabs has moved ahead to make the PLM better. If this was done across the line back in the day I would not have gone through 4 freaking SmartLincs. Which also had the same fairy dust that some how knew to explode at the two year mark.

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.
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bfish2
Starting Member

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  2:23:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gee... I guess I should consider myself lucky... my PLM lasted exactly 3 years... then died yesterday. I ordered a new one... sure hope it's a v 2.0 or I will be calling to complain and ask for a 2.0

Bfish
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2015 :  3:14:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bfish2

Gee... I guess I should consider myself lucky... my PLM lasted exactly 3 years... then died yesterday. I ordered a new one... sure hope it's a v 2.0 or I will be calling to complain and ask for a 2.0



If you ordered directly from SH it will be hardware 2.0.

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.
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bfish2
Starting Member

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  07:28:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got to thinking about why I got the extra year... my ISY and PLM are in the basement. It's generally always nice and cool down there. As with any electronics, that's generally an advantage. Maybe...

Bfish
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oberkc
Moderator

USA
4120 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  10:02:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am always interested in topics like this. I think we should also ask (as purchasers of products) ourselves what role WE play in this. When given a choice between two options, do I ever ask myself which one will last longer, or do I simply pick the less expensive item? Whether airplane seats or LED light bulbs, I suspect most of us are out there trying to stretch every last dollar out of our budget and pick a majority of our purchases based upon price. Why would a company spend resources and ask higher prices for a more reliable item when a great many of us don't consider this a discriminating factor when making a purchase. It could put them into a non-competitive condition.

One immediate exception that I can think of might be in the purchase of a car. I suspect many of us perceive some brands to be longer-lasting than others and this perception can be a factor in choice of car. For most things, however, I suspect price is nearly the sole factor on purchase decisions.

Have no doubt, however. Companies exist to make money. The companies that make money survive. If there is a way to make money by offering more reliable products, the good ones will find it. If we value reliability, we must reward the companies that provide it by recognizing this and purchasing those items.

For those who don't know, I understand there may be soon available a competing PLM. I suggest you start asking yourself how much more you are willing to spend to get a more reliable PLM. Hopefully, it will be available soon.
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phantomiz
Average Member

Canada
70 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  10:57:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Who will be making this new PLM available?

PhanTomiZ
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oberkc
Moderator

USA
4120 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  11:14:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Universal Devices is, I understand, developing a PLM.
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AD8BC
Senior Member

324 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  11:51:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have had a number of devices fail... all of them have been from the 2007-2009 era, except for my PLMs. I'm on my third. Averaging 2.5 - 3 years until they die.

Would love to see UD make a PLM.
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phantomiz
Average Member

Canada
70 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  2:17:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any idea when it will materialize?

PhanTomiZ
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  2:27:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phantomiz

Any idea when it will materialize?



UDI indicated a soft date of Q1 2015. More than likely this will be pushed back to Q2 2015. As they are still trying to identify what is causing a ALL ON / ALL OFF situation that seems to impact a small portion of clients who are using the ISY Series Controller.

It was stated they can not move forward to release the UDI PLM until this issue is identified and resolved. As UDI has no method to update the firmware in the PLM as it comes straight from Smartlabs.

The UDI PLM is basically a better PSU design of the PLM but still relies on the Smartlabs Insteon chips. This UDI PLM will also be a world wide voltage PLM for our brothers across the pond.

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.

Edited by - EVIL Teken on 02/10/2015 2:28:14 PM
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phantomiz
Average Member

Canada
70 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  2:48:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm so close to buying my ISY and PLM. Should this be something to wait for? What are the issues with the current PLM?

PhanTomiZ
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  2:58:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phantomiz

I'm so close to buying my ISY and PLM. Should this be something to wait for? What are the issues with the current PLM?



Honestly I don't believe waiting will serve you other than your pocket book. Smartlabs has just recently upgraded the PLM to hardware 2.0 this replaces the failing capacitors that caused a predictable 2 year shelf life.

They have also updated the firmware to v.9E which removes the ALL ON / ALL OFF commands from the device table.

NOTE: UDI has not released any pricing or technical details of their PLM. Along with no solid release date so waiting is entirely up to you.

I would just go ahead and purchase the ISY Series Controller as its field proven in all aspects.

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.
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oberkc
Moderator

USA
4120 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  2:58:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I assume it will not affect the ISY-994, so my temptation would be to push ahead with the ISY and

the existing PLM, then upgrade the PLM when available. But budget and urgency are different for each of us, so only you can make this decision.

The issues with the current PLM is, as discussed here, that they tend to fail after a couple of years.
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phantomiz
Average Member

Canada
70 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  3:49:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have made the decision to buy the PLM and ISY944IZW. I will verify the hardware version of the PLM so I can get the latest and greatest. My dealer here has lots of stock, so I hope I can get the right one.

On a side note...I have the need to use a EcoNet Z-Wave Controlled Air Vent for my bedrooms (three). I didn't want to complicate my life too much with different systems and really wanted to stick with Insteon, but unfortunately Insteon doesn't make any...

PhanTomiZ
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  9:17:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phantomiz

I have made the decision to buy the PLM and ISY944IZW. I will verify the hardware version of the PLM so I can get the latest and greatest. My dealer here has lots of stock, so I hope I can get the right one.

On a side note...I have the need to use a EcoNet Z-Wave Controlled Air Vent for my bedrooms (three). I didn't want to complicate my life too much with different systems and really wanted to stick with Insteon, but unfortunately Insteon doesn't make any...



I don't think there is anything wrong with having multi protocol HA system. This provides more product options, features, and reduces long term risk should one vendor go under.

You have hedged your bets well and truly believe you will have the best of both worlds of Insteon / Z-Wave.

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.
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phantomiz
Average Member

Canada
70 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2015 :  9:51:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well that's good to know. BTW, my local dealer is having a BIG 5% deal starting tomorrow morning. Here's my big chance at not having to pay full retail...

PhanTomiZ
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phantomiz
Average Member

Canada
70 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2015 :  12:55:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Where would it be labelled V2.0 Hardware? On the box and on the device? Is the firmware upgraded by the user or only factory?

PhanTomiZ
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2015 :  12:58:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phantomiz

Where would it be labelled V2.0 Hardware? On the box and on the device? Is the firmware upgraded by the user or only factory?



Hardware revision is listed on the back of the PLM with a production date. The PLM firmware is only indicated via a software / hardware controller.

If its listed as hardware 2.0 it will be at least v.9E, firmware can only be upgraded from the Smartlabs

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.

Edited by - EVIL Teken on 02/12/2015 12:59:30 PM
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BLH
Advanced Member

6219 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2015 :  1:08:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/2015/1/7/identifying-your-device-revision
http://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/2015/1/6/insteon-retail-device-numbers
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phantomiz
Average Member

Canada
70 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2015 :  5:03:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the info...



PhanTomiZ
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