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plorimer
Starting Member

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  12:27:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
INSTEON today announced a new Hub Pro for $249.99.

http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2243-222-hub-pro.html]

They aren't saying yet what features it has, but are hinting at Apple: "Fantastic, yet-to-be-announced features that might bear unexpected fruit". I'm guessing HomeKit integration, but at that price, which is on par with an ISY, I'm really hoping that it has conditional logic, and variables.

Edited by - plorimer on 01/06/2015 1:38:39 PM

Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10942 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  12:53:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It now shows a price of $149, with an anticipated availability of February 28.

The screenshots suggest a different type of mobile user interface, cleaner and incorporating color, more in line with the native iOS 8 theme.

The 'fruit' comment and the iOS 8 requirement does suggest HomeKit and Siri might be a part of it, but they don't offer much else to go on. Nothing about conditional events or geolocation in there at all. I'm not sure what to think about the two USB ports on the back.

I suspect we'll know more after the presentation at the Consumer Electronics Show. For what it's worth, it is entitled: INSTEON+ HomeKit App and HomeKit Hub.

The description reads: "The INSTEON + app HomeKit Hub allows iOS 8 users to control 200-plus INSTEON devices and all HomeKit-enabled devices, regardless of manufacturer or protocol, enabling the interoperability of the largest number of connected home devices to date."

Cool!
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  1:06:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
These were my observation when I saw it a few hours ago: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/15080-insteon-2243-222-hub-pro/

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.
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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  2:49:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Two more observations: the Hub Pro is as big as the original Hub and it also has two USB ports.

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bagrubes
Average Member

USA
118 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  3:26:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here you go.. Its that time of the year for CES I always look for CES youtube videos. Came across this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5UWvGjeuMc

Some day I will make it to the CES show in Vegas.
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  3:36:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bagrubes

Here you go.. Its that time of the year for CES I always look for CES youtube videos. Came across this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5UWvGjeuMc

Some day I will make it to the CES show in Vegas.



Well that little video addresses a few things. The schedules have times but doesn't show if a date can be selected.

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.

Edited by - EVIL Teken on 01/06/2015 3:37:56 PM
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Hackjaz
New Member

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  10:58:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
HomeKit & Works with Nest announcements both on the same day my new ISY994i ZW PRO is delivered??? Damn! I knew I was getting into home automation at a volatile time, but c'mon, what's a guy to do!?

I bought the ISY to replace the new Hub II I just bought last month. I like the cloud independence and level of programming the ISY offers and I guess I wouldn't really care so much if the two things announced today weren't both on my radar... I live in an Apple ecosystem and have been eagerly anticipating the arrival of new HomeKit products (and still waiting to see how they'll all interact) and having just bought a new house, was considering a Nest thermostat and hoping it would seamlessly integrate itself with everything else I'm adding... I'm shipping the Hub II back this week and I guess I've got 30 days to decide weather to keep the ISY or not... I know no one can predict the future, but feel free to chime in with advice for a newcomer to the world of home automation!

As a little side note, does anyone else think the new Insteon app screenshots look reminiscent of the now defunct revolv hub app? Glad I didn't pull the trigger on that one!

Edited by - Hackjaz on 01/07/2015 5:26:19 PM
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bagrubes
Average Member

USA
118 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  02:12:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Hackjaz,

I also just started to get into the home automation world full bore. I have had some x10 devices for for years but just started it expand. I decided on insteon because of the duel ban technology. I also got the hub 1 in a kit not knowing it was the hub 1. So I just bought the hub 11 $40 not a big investment. I was looking at the ISY as well because i want the z-wave capability for Schalage door locks. I am apple all the way as well and knew they were working on home kit that is why i did not get the ISY. what is going to drive my decision for what will control my system (HUB) is going to be the monthly fee. From what i see most companies want to charge a monthly fee to access you home from out side your home. I would not mind paying a small yearly fee or a 1 time lifetime fee like MOBILINC. But some of the other options out there it seems it will cost you at the minimum $10 a month.

I am good for now and will wait to see what emerges over the net few months. I suspect with APPLE home kit and Insteon the fees will be minimal. I almost jumped on the revolv band wagon a year ago. For now I just want to learn the logic of the devices and how to take full advantage of INSTEON devices.
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  06:40:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bagrubes

Hi Hackjaz,

I also just started to get into the home automation world full bore. I have had some x10 devices for for years but just started it expand. I decided on insteon because of the duel ban technology. I also got the hub 1 in a kit not knowing it was the hub 1. So I just bought the hub 11 $40 not a big investment. I was looking at the ISY as well because i want the z-wave capability for Schalage door locks. I am apple all the way as well and knew they were working on home kit that is why i did not get the ISY. what is going to drive my decision for what will control my system (HUB) is going to be the monthly fee. From what i see most companies want to charge a monthly fee to access you home from out side your home. I would not mind paying a small yearly fee or a 1 time lifetime fee like MOBILINC. But some of the other options out there it seems it will cost you at the minimum $10 a month.

I am good for now and will wait to see what emerges over the net few months. I suspect with APPLE home kit and Insteon the fees will be minimal. I almost jumped on the revolv band wagon a year ago. For now I just want to learn the logic of the devices and how to take full advantage of INSTEON devices.



Historically Smartlabs has not followed the subscription model as it rarely goes well. None of the web based controllers have ever required a service fee to use the product and has been a selling point for the company.

I really do not for see them doing this at all.

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10942 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  08:55:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There's a press release with more details here: www.insteon.com/insteonapp
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  10:05:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I mentioned in the UDI thread it will allow those with a iOS device to now control their Insteon network along with any Apple Home Kit device. It indicates schedules based on day, week, date. But no mention of actual conditional logic or diagnostic tools.

I really hope this version fully utilizes the cloud power to add these to the Apps.

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.
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oberkc
Moderator

USA
4172 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  11:43:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EVIL Teken



Historically Smartlabs has not followed the subscription model as it rarely goes well. None of the web based controllers have ever required a service fee to use the product and has been a selling point for the company.

I really do not for see them doing this at all.



Not, at least, until we are all fully committed, then start charging a fee. This is a concern I have about all such "free" services, especially google voice.
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  12:44:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by oberkc

quote:
Originally posted by EVIL Teken



Historically Smartlabs has not followed the subscription model as it rarely goes well. None of the web based controllers have ever required a service fee to use the product and has been a selling point for the company.

I really do not for see them doing this at all.



Not, at least, until we are all fully committed, then start charging a fee. This is a concern I have about all such "free" services, especially google voice.



True, this could go either way. But, historically they have never charged for any web based device. They indicated for the iGateway thing that literally appeared one day and died the next.

That future enrollment costs would be possible. It never came to be because no one bought the product. To be fair, there were not a lot of companies selling cloud based subscriptions either.

Having said this, people who pay for such things really do so because they don't know better. Or they see some kind of value in it that isn't available locally or from competing products.

The most famous approach (which I hate to death) is this whole premium feature thing. They give you just enough to get you hooked and later when you're committed to the product they let you know for (a fee) you can have more???

Really, you cheap ass??

How about you offer what should have come with the product in the first place! But, the reality is, this is the norm, expected, accepted, and done.

Its the sheeple who continue to support this type of behavior that let it persist. When third of the world is run by morons and the other third are dumber than those that lead.

You get exactly what you see here in the world. People in general in this period of time are lazy, incompetent, beggers, whiners, and believe everything should be catered to them.

Sorry for the mini rant . . .

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.

Edited by - EVIL Teken on 01/07/2015 12:47:46 PM
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mwester
Average Member

USA
149 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  4:40:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Love the rant...


IMO, the lack of any fees for the cloud services isn't due to any plot or due to stupidity on the part of Smarthome -- there's a simpler answer, and the best evidence for it is the total lack of any agreement that one enters into when one signs up with the Hub.

(By the way, for the Smarthome/Insteon apologists here, I have not checked for such a legal document in the past couple months, so please feel free to call me out if such a document suddenly exists!)

Without any type of agreement, Smarthome has no liability for anything their "cloud" does, or fails to do, and in fact they probably have very limited liability if they leak your id, password, and everything else their cloud servers know about your account to everyone on the Internet.

Further (and even better for them), they have no obligation to continue their service for free (as Teken observes in his rant), nor do they actually have any obligation to continue their service AT ALL.

I don't see any conspiracy to gouge us all, or to hold our systems hostage, or anything silly like that. They're a hardware company, and probably don't want to be in the business of managing a cloud-based set of servers and services. Rather, I think they have gotten some really good legal advice -- let it go with no agreement, leave ALL the options open, so that in the future, they can happily sell their customer list and services to a company that IS in that business.


As I said, I might be completely wrong - but as of a few months ago, I still was unable to find any sort of license agreement or SLA or anything of the sort, and none of the Hub owners had responded with information to the contrary. So if it's changed, please correct me.

~mwester
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oberkc
Moderator

USA
4172 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  7:29:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I suspect you may be correct. Unfortunately, this works only so long that the hardware business remains sufficiently profitable. So...despite intentions or motivations at current time...if the hardware business ceases to be profitable, they may be forced to make a decision between:

- charge for services
- get out of business

Neither is good for users of hardware dependent on cloud services. If your theory is true, it sounds bad even if the free service continues.

Does anyone know what is a chumby, or an infocast?

Even apple charges for some cloud services beyond the most basic.
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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  8:05:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Chumby, includes Infocast


Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.


Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum.
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rebirth24
Junior Member

57 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  9:44:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
More GARBAGE from INSTEON. They can't even get their current products to work properly and now they are trying to enter another "market"...
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10942 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  10:02:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It hasn't even come on the market yet, the judgement seems a little premature.
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rebirth24
Junior Member

57 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2015 :  10:07:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am 2 Hubs, 25+ devices, and 3 software interfaces into INSTEON and I think I can form a reasonable conclusion...
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oberkc
Moderator

USA
4172 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2015 :  03:21:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

Chumby, includes Infocast





It used to. Not any more.

Edit: more to the point...This was partly rhetorical. Chumbies (and infocasts) were devices reliant on the cloud to operate. No fees, other than purchase of hardware. Fast-forward to now. Chumby is out of business. A former employee is doing his best (my hat's off to him) to keep the servers running after many months of no service. Of course, there is no reasonable expectation that this would be free, so there is now a monthly fee.

Things change.

Edited by - oberkc on 01/08/2015 10:34:07 AM
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2015 :  10:15:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rebirth24

I am 2 Hubs, 25+ devices, and 3 software interfaces into INSTEON and I think I can form a reasonable conclusion...



(Adding some levity to the conversation)

NOTE: I am pretty direct when I have to be. But this guy is more so than I! I don't want to hear, read, see, that I was the only one expressing (pointed) remarks or comments on things I saw, did, lived through, and endured.

Its safe to say this customer is more forward then myself.

Back to our local news and current events . . .

Nothing to see, carry on . . .

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2015 :  10:37:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by oberkc

quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

Chumby, includes Infocast





It used to. Not any more.

Edit: more to the point...This was partly rhetorical. Chumbies (and infocasts) were devices reliant on the cloud to operate. No fees, other than purchase of hardware. Fast-forward to now. Chumby is out of business. A former employee is doing his best (my hat's off to him) to keep the servers running after many months of no service. Of course, there is no reasonable expectation that this would be free, so there is now a monthly fee.

Things change.



Thanks for the clarity as I had no reference when you made the comment.

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.
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Proto732
Junior Member

USA
34 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2015 :  11:36:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The press release shows the new Hub Pro available for pre-order ... but they don't mention when this new Insteon App will be available.

I am assuming if you want to bridge functionality (ie homekit sensor triggers an Insteon switch) you would need the new Hub Pro.

If you simply want to control multiple devices (homekit or Insteon) from your mobile device, do you only need the Insteon App?

or is the Insteon App tied to the Hub Pro?

-Proto732
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
2372 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2015 :  11:48:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Proto732

The press release shows the new Hub Pro available for pre-order ... but they don't mention when this new Insteon App will be available.

I am assuming if you want to bridge functionality (ie homekit sensor triggers an Insteon switch) you would need the new Hub Pro.

If you simply want to control multiple devices (homekit or Insteon) from your mobile device, do you only need the Insteon App?

or is the Insteon App tied to the Hub Pro?



I track what you're saying and only testing will prove this out. I would be extremely pleased and surprised if the App would allow anyone to simply control another Apple Home Kit device with out first being associated to a cloud account which is linked directly to a HUB Pro.

But, since this is software and so is the cloud infrastructure stranger things have happen. The failing point is that you need a device to be found on the App which obviously must be associated to a piece of hardware.

Teken . . .

Want to make a real difference? Cast your vote to make the PLM Pro a reality: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list/8221-plm-pro

Stusviews: This world is made less with out your presence. Your contributions in all things has helped inspire millions to succeed. You were a husband, teacher, mentor, a friend to all.

I will forever miss our chats, debates, and collaboration. I will not remember how you died but remember how you lived and what you left behind. The sky has another star in the Heavens where you reside but the Earth is much darker with out your light to lead the way.
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bagrubes
Average Member

USA
118 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2015 :  3:23:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You know we all can all assume. Pay service no pay service software interfaces.. The reality is the new pro hub better come with z-wave or zigbee capability. No one is using RF or power transmission. Looking over youtube for smart home tech from CES 2015. Everything is z-wave or zigbee. Even though we know dual ban is better the average consumer is not going to know that. INSTEON could be left behind with the new surge in home automation. Lets face it there is 1 door locks that is compatibly with INSTEON without having to get a ISY and PLM controller. And from what I read it breaks after a few months or a year.

INSTEON needs to beware that they are the only ones doing RF and the new HUB needs to be compatible with other devices. LET US NOT all be blind to this!!
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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2015 :  3:32:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bagrubes
The reality is the new pro hub better come with z-wave or zigbee capability. No one is using RF or power transmission. Looking over youtube for smart home tech from CES 2015. Everything is z-wave or zigbee.


The reality is that both Z-Wave and ZigBee are RF.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.


Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum.
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bagrubes
Average Member

USA
118 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2015 :  3:34:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Stu, then why doesn't INSTEON talk to z-wave?
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BLH
Advanced Member

6350 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2015 :  4:18:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Z-wave uses a completely different RF frequency and protocol.
If both z-wave and Insteon RF where supported. There would have to be two RF interfaces in it. One for Insteon RF and one for z-wave.

Like the ISY994i with z-wave support added. Uses the 2413S PLM to do the Insteon RF and power line. With a optional z-wave daughter card inside the ISY994i.

Edited by - BLH on 01/09/2015 4:19:07 PM
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johnny000
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2015 :  03:14:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi bagrubes,
I am John and I'm new in this forum...Maybe you interested in this http://www.sensorflare.com/ ! Recently I read a blog post in this site about X10 devices! It was so helpful because it like they read my mind!I have also X10 devices in my home and I wonder what I'm going to do because everyday you see new products and projects come into smarthome market
quote:
Originally posted by bagrubes

Hi Hackjaz,

I also just started to get into the home automation world full bore. I have had some x10 devices for for years but just started it expand. I decided on insteon because of the duel ban technology. I also got the hub 1 in a kit not knowing it was the hub 1. So I just bought the hub 11 $40 not a big investment. I was looking at the ISY as well because i want the z-wave capability for Schalage door locks. I am apple all the way as well and knew they were working on home kit that is why i did not get the ISY. what is going to drive my decision for what will control my system (HUB) is going to be the monthly fee. From what i see most companies want to charge a monthly fee to access you home from out side your home. I would not mind paying a small yearly fee or a 1 time lifetime fee like MOBILINC. But some of the other options out there it seems it will cost you at the minimum $10 a month.

I am good for now and will wait to see what emerges over the net few months. I suspect with APPLE home kit and Insteon the fees will be minimal. I almost jumped on the revolv band wagon a year ago. For now I just want to learn the logic of the devices and how to take full advantage of INSTEON devices.

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bagrubes
Average Member

USA
118 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2015 :  03:51:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks John,
This is very interesting. I will look it over in more depth. But it appears to me that its only an app that can communicate with your Insteon. I was having a little trouble finding details how it works.
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paceyben
Advanced Member

413 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2015 :  2:16:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's basically a paid version of ifttt and for some reason they think people are going to pay up to $80 a month for it. There have been lots of spam posts promoting it.
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