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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2018 :  10:41:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a scene with three devices on it, scheduled to turn on at sunset and off at 10:30 p.m. All three always turn on at sunset, but only two of them turn off at 10:30 p.m. The other device stays on. This is true every single night. I have tried removing it from the scene and adding it back in, but it still behaves the same way.
Any ideas?

oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
3707 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  04:00:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What is the device that fails to turn off? What does it power (LED bulb, CFL)? Have you confirmed communication between legs of your electrical system?
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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  2:03:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What are you using to create schedules, a Hub (which one?), an ISY, software, a mechanical timer, something else?

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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  4:42:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The hub I am using is the 2245-22 model. The device that won't turn OFF is an inline device (don't know the model number because it is buried in the back of a box). This device has responded to a scene in the past, but I have changed scenes recently and it will not respond to turn OFF with the scene. As I said, it turns ON fine, and the other devices in this scene respond correctly to ON and OFF commands.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10615 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  5:08:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The most likely explanation is, thereís some kind of signal interference at 10:30 that wasnít operating prior to dusk. Thatís probably why you saw oberkc ask what kind of module and what kind of load is attached to the module that wonít turn off.

If the module is a dimmer and it is mismatched with a load that isnít designed to be dimmed, that could cause additional issues down the road (even if a dimmer is set to 100%, that could also shorten the life of the load and /or the module).

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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2018 :  11:54:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This module has been operating for several years perfectly--in scenes and individually. It's just since New Years, when I changed a scene, that it won't respond to the OFF command of the scene. Would a factory reset help, after removing it from all links?
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10615 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2018 :  1:31:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Changing a scene shouldnít cause that symptom, not unless you were deleting that module from the scene and unsuccessful. On the other hand, signal interference can crop up suddenly, especially when new stuff is being plugged in or moved to different outlets around the holidays.

We can probably help you figure this out, but you have to meet us half way.

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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2018 :  1:39:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
That "it's been working since ..." is no criterion for something that doesn't function now, The TV always worked before, until it didn't, the car always started, until it didn't, etc. Things change, products age.

A factory reset, although it may work, is usually a last resort due to the effort to restore everything. As asked by oberkc, what does the In-lineLic control? CFL bulbs are especially subject to age, LEDs less so.

What's the result if you turn the scene on and/or off from the Hub? the In-lineLinc?

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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2018 :  7:05:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I realize things can break and won't work anymore. The only reason I said that is because it stopped working when I changed the scene. It was working perfectly before that.
Yes, it responds perfectly OFF and ON when manually controlled from the hub, but not when scheduled.
It is controlling a transformer for low voltage lights.
Thanks for your help.
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oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
3707 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2018 :  7:39:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Low voltage lighting would be one of those loads of which I would be suspicious. If there was an easy way to temporarily swap that out with an incandescent, I would try it just to confirm that this is not the problem.

It does seem strange that the manual control works, but not the schedule. Is it possible that the load gets "noisy" after running for longer periods of time than it might be for a quick test?

Unfortunately, I don't use the hub so I will refrain from speculating on whether a scheduled event can get corrupted.
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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2018 :  8:11:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Create a new scene. Add only the errant device (yes, it must be a scene). Schedule the scene to turn on a few minutes from after the scene is created and saved and to turn off one or two minutes later.

If that works, change the scheduled times to a few minutes later. What's the result?

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MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  10:43:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Created a new scene, as suggested. It worked perfectly--on and off! I deleted the old scene and created a new one at slightly different times from the old scene. It looks like everything is now working! I hope. Thanks for all of your suggestions and help. You are all awesome!
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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  11:55:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The further away, in time, that schedules are set for, the better the reliability. I'm talking minutes or even seconds, not hours.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2018 :  1:56:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, looks like I'm back to square one! The in-line device is still not responding to the OFF command of my scene(s), and the other devices on the scene(s) work fine. I even created a scene just to turn it off (no ON time on the schedule). It still will not turn OFF. It still responds correctly when the scene(s) is(are) activated manually. Any further thoughts?
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10615 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2018 :  2:12:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thatís a textbook example of signal interference. What time is it now scheduled to turn off? Before or after the other two lights in the original scene? What other lights/appliances/chargers are still energized at that time?

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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2018 :  1:51:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I removed the non-responding device from all other scenes and created a scene with just that device in it. I played around with different OFF times, and it turned OFF about half of the time. I then put in the OFF time I really wanted and waited.....it did NOT turn OFF. I don't know of anything going on at that time that would interfere. There is no other scene set to trigger at that time. This one really has me stumped. I am still playing around with different times.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10615 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2018 :  2:36:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

Thatís a textbook example of signal interference. What time is it now scheduled to turn off? Before or after the other two lights in the original scene? What other lights/appliances/chargers are still energized at that time?


Clarifying questions may seem oddly specific, but thereís a reason. Clearly thereís some kind of interference issue involved, and it may or may not require that you replace or filter the transformer load on the non-responding module. The more specific, relevant information you share, the more specific tips people with *years* of troubleshooting experience can offer.

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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2018 :  6:40:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I appreciate your help. The only question I haven't answered (I think) is about what other lights/appliances/chargers are still energized at the time the scene is supposed to turn the lights off. If you mean other Insteon devices, their could be other lights on at the time; if you mean any other lights/appliances/chargers, I'm sure other things are on. We live in a large house, with our son and family in our basement apartment. It's almost impossible to determine everything that could be on.
Thanks again for your help. Anything else I can try?
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10615 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2018 :  7:05:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ideally, youíd find the source of interference and filter it or remove it or move it to a different circuit, not the one powering that module and not the one where the Hub is plugged in.

Did you make any changes over the holidays to the circuit where the hub or the module is plugged in? Did you add a router power supply, a new surge arrester, new CFL bulb or a new satellite tv box? Are any CFL or LED lights flickering or looking dim? If you are using Access Points, verify that they are still powered and that they havenít been unplugged or moved to a different outlet. If you donít currently have a dual-band device plugged into the same circuit as the module, plug in a dual band unit there to add an alternate signal path.

If reducing an accumulation of noise elsewhere in the house allows reliable signal reception, then you might schedule just that trouble module to turn off *after* everything else, when there is less background interference inside your house.

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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  12:11:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the suggestions and comments. I will try to isolate things. I have many dual band units in the house, but maybe not on that circuit. I'll have to check. I do not have Access Points here.
Tonight the device turned off at the right time, and then two minutes later went back on--when another schedule triggered to turn on. I have checked and rechecked the schedules and what devices should be triggered with each schedule. I don't know if it's interference as you suggest, or simply something I am missing.
Thanks for your help.
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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  10:06:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What's the actual load on the In-lineLinc, LED, CFL, incandescent, other?

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.


Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum.
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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  1:21:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's a transformer that feeds one single low voltage light. I'll have to measure the load, but it's not going to be much.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10615 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  2:13:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the module is turning on or off in response to commands not directed to it, that suggests it may be mistaking noise for an x10 signal. You should factory reset the module to erase any x10 codes from it.

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BLH
Advanced Member

5769 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  3:36:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If it is an electronic type power supply it may absorb Insteon power line signals or make power line noise when On.
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stusviews
Advanced Member

USA
15854 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  5:12:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BLH

If it is an electronic type power supply it may absorb Insteon power line signals or make power line noise when On.



A noisy load is the most common cause for a load turning on but not off.

Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.


Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum.
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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  6:11:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all of your help. I am going to factory reset it in the next couple of days. At one time it WAS controlled by an X10 device, so maybe those codes are still in it. I will also try to find out what is interfering with it.
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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2018 :  9:40:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thought I would report on my semi-success: I did NOT factory reset the in-line device. I rearranged the timing all of my evening scenes, putting this device last in the timing each night. It started working perfectly--or at least I thought. I went off every night. However, I have actually watched it for three nights now and it does NOT go off when it is scheduled, but earlier--when one of the other scenes is scheduled! I have checked and rechecked and deleted and re-established the other scene and this in-line device is NOT connected to that scene at all, so I don't know what's going on. But at least it's going off every night. I'm not going to mess with it further for now, since it is working, although not exactly correctly.
Thanks for everyone's help. Some day when I get ambitious, I may still factory reset it and see if I can make it work correctly.
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cksedg
Average Member

99 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2018 :  12:04:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Still having an issue with this same scene: I have tried to remove one device from the scene. It shows that it has been removed, but it still comes on with the rest of the scene. How do I make sure it is really removed?
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