Talk About the Latest in Home Automation/Home Electronics -
Home Automation Forum

Smarthome Forum
Insteon Home Automation
Login or Register
 
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Search | FAQ | Smarthome | Security and Privacy
 All Forums
 General Discussion
 Lighting and Appliance Control
 X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

dave w
Junior Member

USA
55 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2018 :  3:19:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by x10guru

You must be confusing the neutral and the ground when you mistakenly say your home does not have any neutral wires.


Late to this discussion but is also on X10 forum. Pretty sure Travasaurus is talking about his switch loops in the switch wall box. Obviously there are neutrals in the house, but built in the '40s the main house wiring could be two black cloth covered wires as it was in my parents home.

This aftershave makes me look fat.
Go to Top of Page

Travasaurus
New Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2018 :  3:38:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dave w

quote:
Originally posted by x10guru

You must be confusing the neutral and the ground when you mistakenly say your home does not have any neutral wires.


Late to this discussion but is also on X10 forum. Pretty sure Travasaurus is talking about his switch loops in the switch wall box. Obviously there are neutrals in the house, but built in the '40s the main house wiring could be two black cloth covered wires as it was in my parents home.


That is exactly what I have. The "insulation" (such that it is) is kind of like the old friction tape that they used to use; it's black and kind of sticky and tarry.
On another note, I've decided to go ahead, bite the bullet and order the XDPI3 switch. I'm having a neutral line installed in the bathroom, bedroom and office so I don't have to worry about this crap anymore. (However, I still wish somebody who's been in my same situation [and I know there's got to have been one out there somewhere] and tried-out this solution would report-in on how well it worked - I hate having to be the "guinea pig" here) I plan to use a WS13A switch in my office and bedroom to control the LED bulbs there since I have no need for dimming capability in either room. It's almost unbelievable that somebody would have to go to all this trouble just to make the X-10 technology (which has served me quite well for decades now) work with something as rinky-dink as LED lightbulbs...
Go to Top of Page

BLH
Advanced Member

5911 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2018 :  4:05:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
X10 two wire switches are not unique to this issue.
The Insteon 2474D and Home Settings Z-Wave HA06 and HA20. Are two wire style dimmers and rated for Incandescent loads only. I tried some dimmable LEDs with a HA20 as a test. Failed badly as I expected.

My wiring is not quite as old as yours. I have two wire Romex with no ground wires in the cable. Switch loops where the white wire has a black band of tape on it to indicate Line from the connection in the fixture and the black goes back to the fixture as the switched load. Neutral is only in the fixture.
Yes the WS13A should be fine with the LED bulbs as an On and Off only control.

Edited by - BLH on 06/26/2018 4:07:07 PM
Go to Top of Page

Travasaurus
New Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2018 :  4:23:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BLH

X10 two wire switches are not unique to this issue.
The Insteon 2474D and Home Settings Z-Wave HA06 and HA20. Are two wire style dimmers and rated for Incandescent loads only. I tried some dimmable LEDs with a HA20 as a test. Failed badly as I expected.
My wiring is not quite as old as yours. I have two wire Romex with no ground wires in the cable. Switch loops where the white wire has a black band of tape on it to indicate Line from the connection in the fixture and the black goes back to the fixture as the switched load. Neutral is only in the fixture.
Yes the WS13A should be fine with the LED bulbs as an On and Off only control.


Thanks! But now back to chasing the same dog around the same tree, what about using the XDPI3 in the bathroom to dim the 3 10-watt (100-watt equivalent) LED bulbs in the light fixture? Will it "work as advertised"? That's what started this whole mess to begin with and I've yet to get a definitive answer on it. Surely somebody, somewhere has tried it, either successfully or unsuccessfully?
Go to Top of Page

BLH
Advanced Member

5911 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2018 :  03:11:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hope you can find someone with the exact setup you want to use and can report to you.
The electronic designs in the XPDI3 and bulbs. May or may not play nice with each other.
Go to Top of Page

roseawebs
Starting Member

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2018 :  9:23:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why you are not uploading picture here? So, we can view your setup properly. If you still face problem then I will suggest buy a new one and take a look at the best Black Friday Flashlight Deals 2018 [Plus Cyber Monday] to quick win. Although, you need to wait little bit more but it worth to wait. Last year, I got a few great deal(one third OFF).

Edited by - roseawebs on 08/27/2018 7:47:24 PM
Go to Top of Page

Travasaurus
New Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2018 :  10:16:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by roseawebs

Why you are not uploading picture here? So, we can view your setup properly.


As noted in several posts above I have to have neutral wires installed first, before I can install the switch. Even so, I'm not sure of what a picture of the setup will do; the wiring instructions are pretty clear. It's the end result that I'm concerned about...
Go to Top of Page

Travasaurus
New Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2018 :  02:57:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As the late, great Paul Harvey used to say, "And now for the Rest of the Story": I went ahead, bit the bullet and hired a Master Electrician and now $200 later I have 2 perfectly-working X-10 WS13A (non-dimmable) switches in my bedroom and office and 1 Insteon 2477D (dimmable) switch in my bathroom, all of which work "as advertised" with all my old X-10 remote control units. The good news is (in the latter case) that my bathroom ghetto blaster works great with no interference whatsoever (the X-10 XPDI3 switch I briefly tried made it unlistenable on the AM band) and the bad news is that it will not dim the LED bulbs down very far at all, nowhere near what it will the incandescent ones, but that's a trade-off I suppose I can live with. For whatever "electrical" reason the neutral wire is apparently a hard & fast requirement for these particular switches when used with LED bulbs, I can now testify to that. It's been a long and frustrating road and I'm glad I've finally reached the end, albeit months later.
Just 1 more question though if I may, looking down the way; it's a pretty sure bet that the X-10 WS13A switches will always work with my current X-10 remotes but I'm a little worried about the Insteon 2477D switch - from some comments made in the Forum it looks like Insteon could decide to "upgrade" the design at any time and I might lose compatibility with my X-10 remote controls. Might it be prudent to buy an extra 2477D switch now to avoid that possibility sometime in the coming days, or is it likely they will stay with the same technology for the foreseeable future? I would be back to "Square 1" if I lost remote compatibility with my control units.
Go to Top of Page

oberkc
Moderator

USA
3842 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2018 :  1:47:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately, I cannot predict the future in this regard. Still, my gut reaction is to purchase and extra switch now. Spares are always comforting and things fail. It is nice to be able to handle failures immediately when they happen, rather than having to wait for a new order to arrive.
Go to Top of Page

Geo
Advanced Member

Canada
815 Posts

Posted - 08/26/2018 :  09:07:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lifecycle of technology products is getting shorter and shorter. X10 has been around some forty years, which is quite an accomplishment. I still use X10 for some control but the modules do have limited life and I'm too cheap to bite the bullet and replace everything at once. I've been able to repair a number of modules, as long as the microcontroller hasn't bitten the dust. The code is not available, as far as I know - one of these days if I have the time I may write my own code. Quite often it has been the lamp-driving triac that has failed. The triac can be easily purchased for less than $1. Appliance modules are nearly impossible to fix if the relay driving the ratchet has a mechanical problem - unless you're a watchmaker. I still have a bunch of modules I purchased some years ago just to be safe.

GJN
Go to Top of Page

Travasaurus
New Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2018 :  02:44:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's looking more and more like I need to "bite the rotten bullet again" and buy an extra (high-dollar) 2477D switch now to avoid a potential compatibility problem down the line, if Insteon decides to tinker with the programming in the switch. I just don't know why these things are so bloody high when the other X-10 switches were (for the most part) fairly reasonably priced. Surely the Insteon products aren't made out of platinum components or some-such. I mean, we're talking mass-produced little circuit boards and what-not here attached to a common rocker switch. Wonder if anybody knows where they're any "good deals" to be had on these things? Anyway, that's where I am at the moment...
Go to Top of Page

avion
New Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2018 :  05:29:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit avion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You made the investment to make X10 reliable, check out the new AVION Bluetooth iPhone App and controller for an elegant next upgrade. Availab le here on SmartHome
Go to Top of Page

Travasaurus
New Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2018 :  2:30:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I managed to catch the Insteon 2477D on sale so now I've got a backup switch in case the current one ever goes bad, which is guaranteed to work with X-10 equipment. So far everything is working like a charm and I'm hoping it will continue to do so for well into the foreseeable future. For any who come along behind me I hope my long and tortuous experience will save them some of the same. The key is to have a neutral wire available; that is what each & every one of these LED wall switches that I've used require for them to work properly with dimmable LED bulbs of whatever description. Just for the record, the switches that I utilized were the Insteon 2477D for the dimmable LED bulbs and the X-10 WS13A for the non-dimmable LED bulbs; so far the brand of bulb doesn't seem to make any noticeable difference.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Smarthome Forum © 2000-2018 Smartlabs, Inc Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.07