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 Circuit with 4 LEDs not working but 6 does - fix?
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alevey
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2019 :  3:47:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Issue:
Circuit with FOUR (4) Ceiling 5w LED Lights (all new, same brand) will not light up.
BUT... Circuit with SIX (6) of the same all new lights, works fine.

Tried 2 different Insteon Dimmers (77D & 76D) on both circuits, same results. Dimmer powers up, communicates with ISY just fine and shows the dim status on front as expected

Called Insteon Support, they had no clue.

Maybe the minimum draw is not being met?
Would adding a dummy load resistor fix the issue?

thx for your help!

Edited by - alevey on 10/01/2019 3:55:18 PM

lilyoyo1
Senior Member

317 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2019 :  4:17:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What bulb are you using? You could also try a different brand of bulb in addition to what you already asked

Edited by - lilyoyo1 on 10/01/2019 4:17:55 PM
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10765 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2019 :  4:34:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 2477 doesn’t have a minimum load, only the 2474 2-wire does because of the way it is powered.

What kind of bulbs are you using? Is there a ballast involved? Are they wired in parallel or in series?
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oberkc
Moderator

USA
3994 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2019 :  4:46:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I notice (with disappointment) that the 2477D switch is still rated for incandescent bulbs as a load. Like the others, I don't see a minimum load requirement. Temporarily try an incandescent in one of the four fixtures. Does it light?

I have no idea why a switch would work with six bulbs, but not four of the same type.
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alevey
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2019 :  6:32:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure its a min load issue. That's why 6 (30 watts total) works and 4 doesnt (20w total). I'll get a Lutron/Aeotec Bypass and try that. Was hoping someone here had some experience with this.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10765 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2019 :  7:34:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I’ve been able to power tiny dimmable loads with the 2477D with no issues, that’s why I asked those other questions.
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oberkc
Moderator

USA
3994 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2019 :  04:14:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I, too, have dimmers with far less than 20w on them. I also do not believe that this is a minimum load issue.
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alevey
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2019 :  06:56:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Light fixtures are 2" Nicor Model # DGD211205KRDWH ... https://www.homedepot.com/p/NICOR-2-in-White-5000K-Remodel-IC-Rated-Recessed-Integrated-LED-Gimbal-Downlight-Kit-DGD211205KRDWH/308635390

The 6 fixture circuit works fine with the Insteon dimmers.  I suspect Insteon dimmers require a min load and the Insteon support doesnt know. If others have gotten it to work on low-loads, it could be luck, or maybe the LED driver (control circuit) that is designed in a way to add more load.

I'm going to add an incandescent light and then another LED or 2 to see when it starts to work.
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lilyoyo1
Senior Member

317 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2019 :  09:05:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by alevey

I'm pretty sure its a min load issue. That's why 6 (30 watts total) works and 4 doesnt (20w total). I'll get a Lutron/Aeotec Bypass and try that. Was hoping someone here had some experience with this.



I highly doubt it's a minimum load issue. I've powered many led bulbs with a variety of insteon dimmers between 4-8 watts
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lilyoyo1
Senior Member

317 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2019 :  09:12:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by alevey

Light fixtures are 2" Nicor Model # DGD211205KRDWH ... https://www.homedepot.com/p/NICOR-2-in-White-5000K-Remodel-IC-Rated-Recessed-Integrated-LED-Gimbal-Downlight-Kit-DGD211205KRDWH/308635390

The 6 fixture circuit works fine with the Insteon dimmers.  I suspect Insteon dimmers require a min load and the Insteon support doesnt know. If others have gotten it to work on low-loads, it could be luck, or maybe the LED driver (control circuit) that is designed in a way to add more load.

I'm going to add an incandescent light and then another LED or 2 to see when it starts to work.



I've installed installed for too many years to call a low load luck. Most likely it's the design of the driver with your particular bulb. The fact that other advanced users also say no issue would lead me to believe that is not the issue as well.
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alevey
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2019 :  10:24:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK guys, lets say its not a low-load problem... so why does it work 100% fine with 6 fixtures, but not with 4?
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10765 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2019 :  07:42:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wiring problem on 4 load circuit? Defective fixture? Are you converting a 3-way circuit to Insteon?

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BLH
Advanced Member

6071 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2019 :  09:57:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe I saw you posting on the UDI forums on this subject. ELA gave a very good explanation on what is possibly contributing to the issue.

The power packs electronics don't use enough current with 4 on the switch but 6 does.
You can't go by wattage alone. As the current and voltage are probably not in phase. So the wattage ratting can't always be added up like you can with a restive incandescent load.

That is way some have had to pick certain brand LED loads to work right.

Edited by - BLH on 10/03/2019 3:18:28 PM
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alevey
New Member

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2019 :  08:30:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@BLH
I agree, I suspect the load w/ 4 fixtures is simply not enough, where 6 fixtures works. I will see about adding a load (night light, etc) or I may have to add more lights - which I dont want to do.

thx
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