Talk About the Latest in Home Automation/Home Electronics -
Home Automation Forum

Smarthome Forum
Insteon Home Automation
Login or Register
 
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Search | FAQ | Smarthome | Security and Privacy | Do Not Sell My Info
 All Forums
 General Discussion
 Insteon
 Need help wiring fan
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

azinman
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2020 :  11:44:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a laundry room fan that’s on an on/off rocker switch currently. It’s a 2 wire setup with line and load (and ground), no neutral. I tried using the Smarthome toggle on/off switch, but it didn’t seem be able to turn the fan on. I’m a bit confused with the electrical wiring as there seems to be a big amount of neutral wires joined, but I can only say that because they’re white. There are two other cables taped red (but potentially meaningless), that I have no idea what they are.

What’s the best way of identifying what these cables are, or it obvious?

Images: https://imgur.com/gallery/FLWw43x

Thank you

BLH
Advanced Member

6156 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2020 :  04:35:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does the Status LED on the 2466SW light when Off?

Where you able to determine which of the two Black wires is the Line and the other one the Load?
Do you have a test meter or access to one from a friend. So you could determine which of the Black wires was the Line and the other one the Load.

If you got the Line and Load Black wires backwards. It would not work and the Status LED probably would not light when Off.

The bundle of White wires are most likely Neutrals.
Go to Top of Page

azinman
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2020 :  08:58:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do have a voltmeter and had previously determined line/load. No LED lights. Why would all those neutrals be wrapped up like that?
Go to Top of Page

oberkc
Moderator

USA
4094 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2020 :  2:14:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When you installed the s art home toggle switch, how did you wire it?

It is not at all unusual to have a bunch of white wires bundled together like that. No, you cannot assume that they are neutral solely because they are white. Furthermore, if they are a neutral, you cannot assume it is a neutral from the same circuit as your ceiling fan.

In your picture, I see the two capped wires. Are those the two wires that were on the switch? Do those two wires come from a single cable or from two cables?

Have you turned off the breaker that controls the ceiling fan? Does turning off that breaker also disable power to whatever is on the left switch?

If you are unable to identify wiring on your own, best way would be to create a diagram or word description of ALL wires in the box and to what they are currently connected. The diagram/description should include:

- how many cables come into the box
- for each cable, how many conductors are there and what color are they (you may ignore any bare copper conductors)
- for each conductor, to what is it originally connected? To a switch? To another conductor?

Go to Top of Page

BLH
Advanced Member

6156 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2020 :  3:21:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You may want to check something simple. The Set button is not pulled out from its normal position. Activating the Air gap switch.
Go to Top of Page

azinman
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2020 :  4:17:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow thanks BLH -- maybe it's that simple.

Interesting re: not same neutral. Ultimately isn't it all the same neutral throughout my house? Or at least for this floor which shares the same circuit breaker?

oberkc -- I believe these photos show it wired. The breaker switch does control both the fan and the light which is to the left of the smart switch. Both are simple 2-wire switches that don't use neutral. As to those floating capped wires in red, I have _no_ idea what they are! It's unclear to me if I can just randomly use a voltmeter assuming they're hot and tie the negative terminal to ground, or if it needs to get tied to neutral, or something else all together. Live 120VAC scares me, so I don't like just randomly testing things (I made the mistake one time of testing live voltage against neutral, not understanding that neutral is also hot! It made a big spark and put the fear of god into me)

As an electrician did all the wiring last year, you guys know about as much as I do. I just know what was going into the previous switch (line, load, and ground), and there seems to be an unused bundle of neutrals (or something else white), and then randomly 2 capped red cables. I've replaced a lot of the switches the electrician put in, and I haven't seen the extra wires hanging out before like this one has it. That's why I'm hoping you all might be able to tell me how to safely use a voltmeter / something else to figure out what all these wires are for.

But perhaps first I'll just simply first try BLH's suggestion about looking at the set button!

So when the set button is in, it effectively turns off electricity? Or at least the ability to toggle it on/off?

Lastly, is this product a counterfeit? I ordered it from Amazon where it said it was from insteon, but then the label itself says 'smarthome - insteon compatible'. I've ordered a diff on/off switch from Insteon that is listed with a model # on their website.

Thank you everyone for your generous help in these crazy times!
Go to Top of Page

oberkc
Moderator

USA
4094 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2020 :  6:15:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Ultimately isn't it all the same neutral throughout my house? Or at least for this floor which shares the same circuit breaker?


Circuits share a hot and neutral. While they may all be tied together at the panel, one must ensure that the white from one circuit is not taking only the current of the black from the same circuit or else risk exceeding the capacity of the conductor. Overheating and fire are the risk

quote:
I believe these photos show it wired.


I am sorry, but I am not good enough to see, from these photos, all the things I asked about: how many cables...what color conductor in each cable...to what each conductor is connected. If you are willing to follow my suggestion, I am willing to try to help. If not, it sounds as if you need to find an electrician locally.

Yes, BLH suggestion is well worth trying. If the "set" button is pulled out, is disables power to the switch.

I find it unlikely that the switch is a fake.

You state that this was recently wired. Was this a former three-way switch?

quote:
not understanding that neutral is also hot!


Neutrals are not hot, but whites are not always neutral.

quote:
The breaker switch does control both the fan and the light which is to the left of the smart switch.


That is a good clue. It suggests to me that the whites in the bundle are a shared neutral for both devices. And...yes...I suspect in this case the bundle of whites is a neutral.

My best guess (pending confirmation of BLH theory) is that you have misidentified line and load. If you are confident that is not the case, then I might consider device failure. I have an extension cord without bare wires at the end. I often wire up new devices to this cord and plug it into an outlet to confirm the device works and I often perform the programming of the device when wired this way. You might consider this approach to confirm whether your device works.





Go to Top of Page

azinman
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2020 :  10:36:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So in the end I think I got the load and line mixed up. I got it to work! So simple I feel so stupid. Thanks for everyone's help I really appreciate it.
Go to Top of Page

BLH
Advanced Member

6156 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2020 :  06:28:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the update and glad it is now working.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Smarthome Forum © 2000-2020 Smartlabs, Inc Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.07