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joeyspencer
Starting Member

Canada
2 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2012 :  5:02:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i have been using a 1132cu PLC with smarthome manager to control x10 devices at a car wash, mostly with pum01 universal modules as garage door strikes, with a few light switches and wall receptacles.

the PLC failed, and i ordered a 2413u dual band PLM to replace the 1132cu, but it's not as simple to install, and the smarthome manager software won't seem to connect. would the 2414u PLC have been a more suitable replacement, or can this 1132 be replaced at all? do i need to buy insteon software instead? i'd rather keep using the smarthome manager software, as my folks control the car wash remotely using pcanywhere, and the smarthome manager was quite easy to use, and i was well satisfied with it.

many thanks

joey

Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10643 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2012 :  5:11:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How are you determining that the 1132 failed, vs. just power line noise interfering with signals? Power line interference is pretty common with x10 gear these days.

Your hardware and the Insteon devices you mention are completely different product lines and not designed to be compatible with each other. If the 1132 is in fact dead and you want to continue to use the same software, you'll need to track down another 1132cu.

You are posting this on a user-to-user forum. Try contacting Smarthome to see if they have any old stock; if they don't, you might watch to see if someone is selling a used device on ebay or elsewhere online. Absent that, you'll have to look at upgrading to more current hardware like the ISY.
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joeyspencer
Starting Member

Canada
2 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2012 :  5:30:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i determine it's failed because none of the devices respond anymore. the software still seems to connect to the plc, but it doesn't seem to transmit anymore. i can't rule out interference, but it has worked near flawlessly for years, and nothing has changed in the setup. i also brought the plc to a different computer, and still none of the x10 devices respond.

is there a pretty user friendly software that i can use with the 2413u and the x10 devices i currently have, fitz? i notice the universal modules i use as door strikes are discontinued at smarthome (still some available elsewhere) , and only insteon devices to replace them. if/when these fail, i may have to move to something else either way.

tks again
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
10643 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2012 :  5:40:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Personally, I'd return the 2413u and pick up an ISY kit (the kit would include a 2413s and a power supply) instead. The ISY is a robust controller that won't require a computer to stay running--you can look in on it from anywhere using a smartphone and you can make changes to the programming locally or remotely using an Internet-connected PC. Perhaps the most important feature in your application is that it supports counters, so you can have programs or email notifications activate automatically either by date or by number of operational cycles to alert you about required service intervals.
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jdale
Advanced Member

USA
1205 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2012 :  9:00:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit jdale's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you want to play with free software a bit before making a decision, you can try mine: http://www.smarthome.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9875

I'll let you judge pretty and user friendly for yourself. I admit I tend towards information-dense. However, it will work with the 2413U, and it will control/monitor X10 (as well as Insteon) including timers, responding to sensors, etc. And it's free. You can email me or post in that thread if you need help figuring it out.

There may be other free software that will work, I don't know of any though.

Insteon FAQ: http://goo.gl/qNTNr
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x10parts
Starting Member

5 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2012 :  3:14:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit x10parts's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have a few of the 1132cu with software in stock if you need one. I know smarthome discontinued them but I love this device. x10parts.com

X10parts
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BLH
Advanced Member

5836 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2012 :  4:17:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I still use my 1132CU for X10 signal testing and line monitoring.
Too bad Smarthome never updated the Smarthome Manager to install in Vista and above or to do the new DST dates.
Though there are workarounds for both issues.
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Monts
Starting Member

2 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2014 :  8:32:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
1132 Resurrected

After attempting all the troubleshooting steps I realized my 1132cu finally bit the dust and I found that they are very difficult to find and replace. I decided to open the unit and noticed a very slight bulge on the top of one of the black capacitors. An associate had a spare 50 V 470uf matching capacitor so we soldered it in.

Much to my surprise, the unit is working again as new. So once this unit fails, all may not be lost. You have nothing to lose, open up the unit and check the two black capacitors for any sign of bulging.

Good luck!
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johnzonie
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2014 :  07:23:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Monts,

Just wanted to say thanks for posting this. My unit stopped sending commands same as yours. I purchased the 470 uF, 50 V cap from DigiKey part number P5574-ND for $0.78 each, replaced the one in the unit and it is back up and running.

Great catch! Thanks again!

John
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[email protected]
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2014 :  11:35:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow! I just stumble on this thread to fix the 1132CU by replacing a capacitor. My 1132 quit about 2 years ago; the computer could talk to it, etc., however no PLC signals went out on the line. At that time I tried to get a replacement; there were several on-line units available for lots of $$$ ... like over $100. But I did find one really nice guy in GA that had 2 new ones and he only charged me $45 each. So I have one in operation and one for insurance. But, I still have the old, broken one and will check to see if the cap is the problem. Thanks for the great info.

Art
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nhw3w
Starting Member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2015 :  12:52:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just had a computer crash and cannot find my Smarthome Manager Plus software disc.

Does anyone know where I gat a copy of the software....?

Thanks for any insights

Norbert

Edited by - nhw3w on 01/08/2015 12:53:13 PM
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nhw3w
Starting Member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2015 :  4:11:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Never Mind....I found my CD
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hdog2000
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2015 :  5:06:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nhw3w
I have a 1132cu and am looking for a copy of the software.
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wildcatson
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2015 :  11:58:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Just wanted to say thanks for posting this. My unit stopped sending commands same as yours. I purchased the 470 uF, 50 V cap from DigiKey part number P5574-ND for $0.78 each, replaced the one in the unit and it is back up and running.

Great catch! Thanks again!
[/quote]
I am a novice. Have used x10 successfully for years with powerlinc 1132cu. I think it has died and I cannot seem to locate a new one. I tried to follow suggestion above and took the controller apart. Did not notice any bulging in parts mentioned. Don't even know how to remove them to replace. Any thoughts or suggestions?
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marctellevik
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2016 :  06:45:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Monts

1132 Resurrected

After attempting all the troubleshooting steps I realized my 1132cu finally bit the dust and I found that they are very difficult to find and replace. I decided to open the unit and noticed a very slight bulge on the top of one of the black capacitors. An associate had a spare 50 V 470uf matching capacitor so we soldered it in.

Much to my surprise, the unit is working again as new. So once this unit fails, all may not be lost. You have nothing to lose, open up the unit and check the two black capacitors for any sign of bulging.

Good luck!



THANK YOU Monts!
This fix brought my 1132cu back to life. I have many X-10 devices around the house to control landscape lighting and night/security lights etc. I didn't want to change to a unit that has to be connected to a computer running at all times and I would have hated to have to replace all those x-10 modules.
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prlaba
Starting Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2016 :  11:03:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was excited to find this post and discovered that my suddenly-stopped-working PowerLinc 1132cu controller also had the same 'bulged' 470uF cap as posters here have described.

So I decided to go ahead and replace that cap and the other two filter caps, as well as the battery. I found exact replacements for everything at Mouser. The removal of the old parts was relatively simple, except that some of the components were held in place by glue. I used a low-power heat gun to soften the glue where necessary. The new parts installed easily.

Sadly, replacing those parts did not bring my controller back to life. It continues to not generate any X10 codes on my power lines (all of my X-10 schedules and macros don't work). It seems to 'behave' correctly when connected to my PC, and my SmartHome Manager software seems to see the device and can download to it with no reported errors (unknown if the software actually verifies that the controller's flash contains the downloaded data). Bot none of my defined macros work (e.g., A16 turns on/off all outdoor lights), and none of my schedules work (turn on outdoor lights as dusk, off at midnight).

Anyone have any better troubleshooting suggestions?

One interesting discovery I made while replacing the battery: My replacement battery has the same pin orientation and polarity as the old one. When I removed the old battery, there was a small '+' sign masked on the PCB next to one of the battery leads (not visible when the battery is installed). Except the old battery's pin polarity was 'backwards' relative to the hole marked with '+'. Since my new battery's orientation and polariry matched the old one exactly, I went ahead and installed the new battery with the same pin orientation as the old one: 'backwards' relative to the '+' hole.

Obviously if the old battery had really been installed with its +/- pins reversed, the controller never would have worked -- it would have either shorted out, or at best never retained its flash memory. (Unless there was circuitry to 'correct' the reversed polarity, in which case the pin orientation doesn't matter.) The controller has been working reliably (up until now) for many years.

Anyone else notice this oddity?

I'm bummed that this fix didn't work. I have a lot invested in X-10 gear, and can't afford the high cost of upgrading to newer home automation systems like Insteon. I'd still like to fix my 1132cu controller if possible, if for no other reason than to continue turning various lights on and off at scheduled times.

Suggestions and ideas welcome!

Paul
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BLH
Advanced Member

5836 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2016 :  1:03:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe you have a different revision PCB.
I looked at one of mine. The + side of the battery and the silk screen + on the PCB are facing the two large filter capacitors.
Drawing of the battery if it helps.
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/additional/panasonic_BR-1225-VCN.pdf

If you have macros and timers downloaded into it. The remaining memory tab should show less than 98%. If you have a program in it.

Edited by - BLH on 09/23/2016 1:05:39 PM
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prlaba
Starting Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2016 :  05:25:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks BLH.

Ignore what I said about the battery '+' on the PCB being backwards. 'User error' :-)

So what are my options at this point? What can I use to replace my broken 1132u controller that's compatible with my existing collection of X-10 gear and my Smarthome Manager software? Will the Smarthome 2414u controller fit the bill? (Looks to be X-10 compatible, but will I need new software? Need software that runs on Windows 10.)

Paul
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BLH
Advanced Member

5836 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2016 :  10:05:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 2414U is the old discontinued Insteon Power Line Controller.
It did have a Rear Time Clock IC in it and the same lithium cell used in the 1132CU. It also had some storage for timers.
It could also do X10 commands. Though the dimming commands could be the X10 %Dim commands. That X10 modules would not process.
No it will not work with Smarthome Manager Software. It also used the Smarthome Device Manager and I believe SDM would not work with Windows Vista and above.

You do want to store timers in the controller and then power off the computer?

The X10 CM15A with Active Home Pro software should work. Since X10WTI went bankrupt and their registration servers are gone. Tuicemen has written a program called Lifejacket that allows AHP to be installed on new computers with some of the optional plugins also.

You could also see if anyone has a 1132CU available for sale or free to a good home. Better than the electronic recycle bin.

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prlaba
Starting Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2016 :  3:26:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I did some more troubleshooting of my 1132u PowerLinc controller (PLC), to see if I could figure out the problem. I'm trying to interpret some of the clues, but could use some help from anyone with more X-10 expertise than me.

First, I have the PLC connected to my PC via a USB cable -- I'm running Smarthome Manager Plus (SMP) v5.3.24 on Windows 10 Pro. The PLC is plugged into an outlet via a long extension cord , to avoid line noise from the PC.

I can easily verify that SMP is communicating with the PLC as it detects the PLC when started, it shows 'PLC connected' in the status box, I can get and set the PLC's time, etc. I know the PLC's clock is working as I can watch its time change in the status box. It appears that the PLC's flash is ok, as I can see X-10 commands show up in SMP's log when one of the PLC's downloaded schedules triggers.

However, turning on or off any of my X-10 devices from within SMP, from a downloaded schedule or from a downloaded macro always fails.

For example, if I set the PLC's time to a minute before the scheduled 'Turn outdoor lights on' event, here's what I see in the SMP's Advanced Controller Log:

R: B1 - 5:17:28 PM 9/24/2016
R: BOn - 5:17:28 PM 9/24/2016
R: B2 - 5:17:28 PM 9/24/2016
R: BOn - 5:17:29 PM 9/24/2016
R: B3 - 5:17:30 PM 9/24/2016
R: BOn - 5:17:30 PM 9/24/2016
R: B4 - 5:17:31 PM 9/24/2016
R: BOn - 5:17:31 PM 9/24/2016
R: B7 - 5:17:32 PM 9/24/2016

(B1, B2, B3, B4 and B7 are my outdoor lights' X-10 codes.)

I can also see the PLC's LED turn off while it generates all of the above individual 'B' commands. That seems to further confirm that the PLC is working, initiating X-10 commands in response to an elapsed schedule time. But none of my outdoor lights turn on, indicating that either the PLC is broken and not putting any X-10 signals on the powerline, or noise on the powerline is blocking the commands from getting trough to the target devices.

And I'm not sure if the SMP's log is showing me actual X-10 commands detected on the powerline by the PLC, or simply the PLC letting SMP know what it's doing.

For example, I have B16 defined as a macro, which turns all of my my outdoor lights on and off. If the PLC SMP's log were actually logging commands detected on the powerline by the PLC, then I would expect that pressing B16 on my palm pad would show not only the 'BOn' and 'B16' commands but also all of the other X-10 commands associated with my turning on my outdoor lights. But I don't see those commands in the log.

So how can I determine if the PLC is actually sending out X-10 commands over the powerline? I'm convinced the PLC is broken, not sending anything out on the powerline, because if I plug one of my transceivers into the same outlet as my PLC, I can reliably control all of my outdoor lights (via their own individual codes). It's possible that my transceivers generate stronger X-10 signals than the PLC, so that the PLC is correctly generating X-10 signals but they're not strong enough to get through to the target devices.

By the way, I have the usual noise filters and phase couplers in place.

Any and all suggestions welcome!

Paul
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BLH
Advanced Member

5836 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2016 :  3:59:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Smarthome Manager Essentials 5.3.27

Timer test for 4:55 AM 1132CU set to 4:53 AM and sent commands at 4:55 AM.
Log shows this when triggered and sent the X10 power line commands.
R: A3 - 6:44:30 PM 9/24/2016
R: AOn - 6:44:31 PM 9/24/2016
R: A1 - 6:44:31 PM 9/24/2016
R: AOn - 6:44:32 PM 9/24/2016
R: A4 - 6:44:33 PM 9/24/2016
R: AOn - 6:44:33 PM 9/24/2016
R: A5 - 6:44:34 PM 9/24/2016
R: AOn - 6:44:35 PM 9/24/2016

A16 On sent from a HR12A Palmpad through a RR501.
R: A16 - 6:47:08 PM 9/24/2016
R: AOn - 6:47:08 PM 9/24/2016

If you have a plug in module. You may want to test it in the same outlet as the 1132CU.
Depending on the age of your transceiver. The early models had a larger output than the newer ones.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/x10-sig.html

I still have my JV Digital Engineering XTB-IIR 2 phase repeater on my house. So my X10 signals at the breaker box are 20 volts or more of X10 signals.

Edited by - BLH on 09/24/2016 4:02:15 PM
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BLH
Advanced Member

5836 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2016 :  4:04:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Would you happen to know anyone using X10 and maybe having an X10 signal meter? You could use for tests.
Like an ELK ESM-1, Smarthome Testerlinc, JV Digital Engineering XTBM or XTBM Pro?
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prlaba
Starting Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2016 :  04:09:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks again BLH. Your results appear similar to mine.

Do you happen to have any macros defined? I use macros downloaded into my 1132cu PLC so that I can control multiple devices with a single house/unit code. When I activate one of my macros (by pressing its on/off button on my palm pad, I see the X-10 commands logged for that button press, but I don't see all the individual X-10 commands logged for the devices triggered by the macro. I don't know if that's because the macros aren't working in the PLC, or the Smarthome Manager Plus (SMP) software simply isn't logging them (the PLC would only 'see' the single button press; it should then put onto the powerline the X-10 command for all the actions defined for the associated macro; SMP is clearly not logging those commands).

The situation is even more confusing if I turn devices on or off from within SMP. When I do that, the log shows some but not all of the expected X-10 commands. For example, if I turn on A1 and then B1, I see the 'B1' command logged but not the 'BOn' command. After playing around with this more, I concluded that this is likely a bug within SMP. By the way, turning lights on and off from within SMP doesn't work with my PLC (the device never responds), further evidence that my PLC is not putting X-10 commands on the powerline or my powerline has too much noise for the signal to get through to the device. Turning devices on and off from within SMP *used* to work previously.

Paul
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BLH
Advanced Member

5836 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2016 :  06:59:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I no longer use my 1132CU or Smarthome Manager Essentials software. So no downloaded Macros or Timers in the 1132CU.

I keep mine in service to do X10 tests for members of the X10 forums where I am a Community Organizer and X10 questions in other automation forums.

I am using an ISY994i Insteon Interface with early Insteon modules that also accept an X10 Address added to it.
The ISY994i can also do X10 natively but their A10/X10 firmware add on makes it easier to use.
Still have a few X10 Chime Modules, HR12A Remotes, RR501 Transceiver in use. With the XTB-IIR X10 Repeater on the breaker box. It is one of the few X10 model repeaters that does not falsely trigger on an Insteon Message.
The HR12A with RR501 still control my modules as I never liked the Insteon Remotes. 16 x10 addresses can be controlled. No Insteon remote can do more than 8.
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BLH
Advanced Member

5836 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2016 :  07:09:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Been a long time since I set up my 1132CU.
With my uses of a X10 repeater. I had to change the X10 Send Delay for better results. I had mine set to 3000ms and the built in 400ms. For a total of 3400ms. That was 3.4 seconds and I may have gone overboard and made it extra slow.

I left the PowerLinc Polling time at 400. I understand making it lower helps with receiving many messages in a crowded system but also keeps the 1132CU from doing other chores.

I believe the 1132CU maybe polite and hold off sending messages if it thinks noise is a transmission in progress.

This is what I got in the communications tab. With the 1132CU on an X10 filter and seeing no X10 commands on the power lines.

Timer test for 4:55 AM. On an X10 power line filter
Log shows this when triggered:
R: A3 - 8:15:43 PM 9/24/2016
R: AOn - 8:15:44 PM 9/24/2016
R: A1 - 8:15:44 PM 9/24/2016
R: AOn - 8:15:45 PM 9/24/2016
R: A4 - 8:15:45 PM 9/24/2016
R: AOn - 8:15:46 PM 9/24/2016
R: A5 - 8:15:46 PM 9/24/2016
R: AOn - 8:15:47 PM 9/24/2016

Jeff has a good set of troubleshooting tutorials you may find of some help.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm

Edited by - BLH on 09/25/2016 10:34:45 AM
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X10 Geek
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  5:09:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So I find this thread interesting about the capacitor fix. But I have a question about my controller before I dissect it. My system worked great until recently then stopped. My 1132cu works with a module in the piggyback outlet (as was suggested earlier in this thread) and I see the green LED blink when the command comes through from my desktop controller. I have a meter that is not showing any noise but does show the signal on the line. So my question is if the piggyback outlet on the controller does work, that does or doesn't guarantee that the signal is going in to the electrical system from the internal program? I hope I described that well enough to understand. I assume the only way to continue troubleshooting this problem is to watch the meter and see if any signals are going out on their programmed times and if not my controller is dead? true or false? Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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BLH
Advanced Member

5836 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2018 :  04:40:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The pass through outlet is connected to the power line in parallel with the 1132Cu controller.
The module in the outlet working indicates there is some X10 transmission signal.
Depending on your test meter. You should see 3 or more volts of X10 transmission signals. My XTBM test meter shows about 3.5 volts on the pass through outlet.

If it is very low. It could be the 1123CU or something recently changed in the setup. Like a new power line noise maker or signal sucker. Smarthome Manager has a signal test function. You could set it to send a cycle of commands on an X10 address while using your test meter to see the levels in different areas of the home. The link to Jeff's tutorials in this thread. Is a good place to get information on X10 troubles.

If you are using a phase coupler or repeater. You may want to see if it is still functioning correctly.


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